13. Spiritual Healing
Spiritual Web Chat
Session 1: Sat 12 Sep 1998

Ben< Tonight is the first of a series of seminars on spiritual healing. As usual for these seminars, it is very large subject area, so we'll probably only scratch the surface, but we'll try to look at the scope of the subject and some of the subsets.

Ben< First, what are we talking about?

Ben< According to Webster, "to heal" means: (1) to become healthy again; get well, recover from illness or injury; and also (2) to help another become healthy again, make well, remedy illness, repair injury, and thus restore to health. Both senses of the term are important, because they indicate two different sources of healing (internal and external to the one who is healed).

Ben< Health is defined (by Webster) as freedom from disease, pain or defect; normality of physical and mental functions. Thus, health is the normal condition; illness and injury are departures from the normal condition. To recover or restore health is to return to the normal condition.

Ben< Spiritual, in the broadest sense of the term, means "not material; not physical". So when we speak of spiritual healing, we infer that the initial cause (source) of the healing isn't physical or chemical. This would seem to exclude therapies such as surgery and drugs, but as we shall see, spiritual healing isn't that simple.

Ben< Now let's look at some fairly recent examples of spiritual healers, to see what they did, how they explained it, and/or how we think they healed people.

Ben< ALL: If you are familiar with the work of Edgar Cayce, what did he do? How did he explain it? How do you think he did it? YOUR TURN

blueye< I have heard of but not read Edgar Cayce's work.

Yopo< Same with me. Not familiar enough with Cayce to venture an opinion.

SLIDER/Abyss< I believe Cayce drew on the power of other good spirits for the directions and remedies for the healings he was involved in.

blueye< I do agree with SLIDER'S statement

Ben< SLIDER/Abyss: Cayce's diagnoses and treatments were pretty obviously beyond his own capabilities.

Polgara< Wasn't he a trance-medium who was able to diagnose and then treat people's illnesses?

Ben< Polgara: Yes, he worked while asleep (in a trance).

LAGONE< Edgar Cayce was a simple man who taught Sunday school and had a great faith in the Almighty. He didn't understand his own gift.

FRAML< I remember that Cayce said he was getting the information from a spiritual source, but it was about types of medicine and treatments. Also he didn't have any way to determine if the source was good or bad, because of his being in a trance.

Ben< LAGONE, FRAML: Good point. Cayce didn't really know what he did, or how the diagnosis and prescription was done, and therefore couldn't explain it, because he was in a trance.

windi< He often tapped into what he called the Akashic Records, although I am not sure that he used them to locate people or remedies for their illnesses ... probably causes, though, in some cases.

Lor< I have the impression the Cayce was able to communicate with a group of spirits (probably former medical people) that answered his call to the lord that he wanted to help people.

summer2< I believe he tapped into the universal consciousness, something we all have the ability to do.

SLIDER/Abyss< According to literature written about Cayce, he was shown at a young age that he had this power to contact good spirits, and that he should try to use it whenever possible.

Cassandra< I believe he contacted his Higher Self -- The Spirit within him. It would know all the answers.

5foot2< As I recall, Cayce could go into a trance and be able to see inside people's bodies and determine what was the matter with them.

greyman< Communication from sender (healer, incarnate or discarnate, substance) to receiver (person or organism to be healed) is done on many levels. Confidence (trust and the will to be healed) must be established verbally and physically through a flow of healing energy. There are only two ways I know to generate this energy: 1) care, and 2) ask for my caring to be amplified from a more loving and caring being than myself. Hopefully more powerful. *g*.

Polgara< greyman: So would that mean that a 'negative source' couldn't heal, or that the healing would be only temporary, and thus not real?

greyman< Polgara: Yes. Negative energy doesn't heal, but it can be used to kill cancer. And after all, physical healing is only temporary. Lazarus died twice.

LAGONE< My husband believed in God and me. He did manage to stay with me longer than the doctors had predicted. I just worked with herbs. I'm not a vessel. God is the true healer.

blueye< LAGONE: Yes, I agree, God is the true healer. If it is his will, he will allow the healing through spirit contact, is what I feel.

Yopo< Hmm... So Cayce was more a channel for conveying diagnostic and treatment information, rather than a direct "hands-on" sort of healer? Didn't know that.

Lor< Cayce was given information about his client by a spiritual source, and it was taken down by a secretary as he spoke the message given him in trance. He was a simple good man that wished well of others. He tried to be a good Christian person, as he best understood that.

Ben< Another comment on Edgar Cayce -- sometimes he was used for not-so-good purposes, like exploring for oil wells, but something or someone brought those efforts to naught.

FRAML< Ben: Yes, the old "Are we using our gifts for Power or Purpose?"

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: Whenever Cayce tried to do this type of work for any monetary gain for anyone is when it usually backfired.

Lor< Once someone used Cayce while he was under trance to tell the outcome of some ball game or something like that in order to bet on the outcome. Cayce was unaware of this and would have disagreed strongly and not allowed same had he known. However, he suffered violent headaches when he came out of the trance and suspected that something like that had happened.

LadyV< Lor: That's interesting...

order< I have read much on Cayce and have been to the A.R.E. headquarters, and while some entities did manage to speak through Cayce, he generally merely read the Akashic Records within his Higher Self and became a channel through which his own Soul/Spirit was expressed in his readings. *S

greyman< order: I have also read much on Cayce and have been to the A.R.E. headquarters. I can assure you that I have the highest respect for his talent and integrity. I would hope any caring decent person would be of like mind. *G*

Ben< ALL: If you are familiar with the work of Arigo, what did he do? How did he explain it? How do you think he did it? YOUR TURN

SLIDER/Abyss< Sorry, Ben, never heard of him.

Yopo< Arigo... He's the "psychic surgeon" from South America?

Ben< Yopo: Yes, Arigo was a psychic surgeon. He isn't nearly as well known as Edgar Cayce, so I'll post a brief description.

Creativlit< Hello ... just walked in. Sorry to say I haven't heard of Arigo, but would love to learn.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: Is he the same person they did a television documentary on?

FRAML< He was a simple man who performed incredible surgery with an old pocket knife. He was in South America. He said he got his information from the spirit of a German doctor, and he also credited God with his ability.

SLIDER/Abyss< FRAML: That was the same guy I was thinking of.

LadyV< Ben: Was Arigo the Malayan that was supposed to do healing surgery, but they found out he was a fake? ... not sure here ... probably in error ...trying to place the name.

Ben< LadyV: No, that wasn't Arigo, but you make a good point nevertheless. There have been a lot of fake healers, including fake psychic surgeons.

Lor< I had never heard that Arigo was a fake. He had a fantastic reputation for healing many types of serious medical conditions. Somewhat like Pastor Pio did (I'm not sure of his correct name at this moment).

Ben< Lor: Arigo wasn't a fake. And neither was Padre Pio.

LadyV< Lor: Pio did heal ... bless him...

SLIDER/Abyss< Lor: From what I heard about Arigo, the authorities and the medical professionals where he lived trumped up things to down-grade him, but it is all hearsay.

Dolphie< I imagine many have tried to make these people look like fakes, as they have done all saints all through the ages.

Ben< Arigo diagnosed hundreds of people per day, prescribed a variety of medical treatments, and performed actual physical operations using the nearest available knife. His success rate was astonishing. His own explanation was that he was working with and for a team of discarnate doctors.

Yopo< Ben: You mean, he actually made surgical incisions? That left surgical wounds to heal, same as a conventional procedure?

Ben< Yopo: Yes, he did. But the incisions healed very quickly.

Yopo< LadyV & Ben: Thanks for clarification. Think I've got information about several of those people mixed up. I was thinking about some guy who operated with his bare hands. Removed and discarded "tumors" and such without leaving a wound. Reminded me of some shamanic practices, where a stone or other object is produced and discarded as part of the healing process.

Cassandra< Yopo: I was thinking of him, too, but can't remember his name. Thought it started with an A though.

LadyV< Yopo: That is the man I mentioned to Ben earlier. It was a Trick of hand ... fooled many people. I forget his name ... reason I was confused.

Yopo< LadyV: "Tricks" are occasionally legitimate in some contexts. Like the shaman who takes a stone from a person, displays and discards it. Or sucks out "poison" from the body. It operates on a symbolic level and strengthens the person's belief that they are being helped. And belief is a very strong force.

LadyV< Yopo: Agree that is why the man in question got by with deceiving people, and the harm was that they did not seek medical care, and many died. The shaman has a place, I feel more for the psychological purpose. Medical problems, the shaman best leave to medicine, but in primitive society that is all there is. Appreciate your point, Yopo.

Aqua< Ben: What's your opinion on this: Spiritual healing is a kind of healing process where it happens only when we had managed to contact and aware of our Soul and Spirit through living impeccably in our life, other is consider as psychic or paranormal healing?

[Ben< Aqua: Our terminology for this subject isn't precise. Spiritual healing could be defined as you suggest, as a subset of paranormal healing. However, since Webster defines health as the normal condition, and healing as a return to the normal condition, I'm using "spiritual" in the broadest sense, so as to include all non-physical healing whether normal or paranormal.]

LAGONE< Ben: There are a lot of people out there who claim to be healers, but I get turned off because I always thought that one who received the gift should be pure in mind and spirit. Is this wrong? or can anyone do it?

[Ben< LAGONE: The ability to heal oneself spiritually seems to be more-or-less active in sapient beings; however, the ability to actually heal another spiritually is rare in every time and society that I have any information about.]

Lor< LAGONE: I believe it is the source of the healing energy that must be "pure" and that neither the patient nor the healer themselves need be so pure. In Cayce's case, his simple caring was sufficiently good to permit him to contact the spirit team that helped him. I have no way of knowing about their purity, except that their information was generally pretty much correct (per the statistics that Cayce accumulated).

order< Lor: The Cayce readings said that the purity of the channel through which information was coming was primary, paramount, to the degree of accuracy or purity.

Istahota< order: Had a statement from Cayce saying we need to be clear channels. That deals with self-healing first, which will allow us to do the very best we can instead of just half of a job. Just a good place to start for me.

Ben< By the way, Edgar Cayce wasn't a fake. His healings are well documented.

Samanta< How do we know a person is pure in mind and spirit?

heavenly< Samantha: Your first impression.

LAGONE< Samanta: By the way they treat others. I'm sorry, I still have a child-like belief. A lot of things go over my head and I don't reach for them. *S*

Samanta< LAGONE: Ah, well, I also have a child-like belief and I love it!

heavenly< Well, the way you feel towards it is more like it. That never fails. I've bumped and I've learned.

Ben< ALL: If you are familiar with the work of Barbara Brennan, what does she do? How does she explain it? How do you think she does it? YOUR TURN

blueye< I really must get out and read more. :(

Dolphie< There is nothing out there being done that ANY one of US could not also do. We are all vehicles for God or Spirit. Which is exactly what Jesus tried to show us. He said "You can do everything I do and even greater things than these."

Samanta< Dolphie: I have the same belief, even though it is good to learn, I think.

heavenly< Dolphie: Being less and becoming pure messengers of Love

Dolphie< Most of us don't "believe" we can do those things, and that is the only reason we cannot. *S* All we have to do is to truly believe.

Lor< Dolphie: I am under the impression that it is best when we do not have to use our own energy to heal, as sometimes we can contract the malady ourselves. Our belief in being able to heal is possibly not the only criterion -- it is knowing how to both pray and heal while "believing" we can do those things and having a proper purpose in some spiritually ethical sense that seem crucial to success.

blueye< If it is done not for self-gain but for the highest good of mankind, then I believe it is pure. :)

Polgara< I don't think God always uses 'pure' vessels to do his work. I think it pleases him to work through us just the way we are to reveal how great his power truly is. I also think there are MANY who try to discredit that, in fear of what it means to their way of life! IMHO.

Dolphie< Polgara: That is a very good point. If everyone were pure channels, they would not be working from this side, eh?

summer2< Polgara: I agree. If anyone has read Conversations With God, Neale Donald Walsch is not perfect or pure and supposedly God spoke through him.

LadyV< Polgara: I agree with you. Some of the worst stinkers alive serve God in the strangest ways. (smiling)

LAGONE< LadyV: How does one have a belief in the stinker?

LadyV< LAGONE: Not in the stinker -- in what is being sent through the stinker. Takes a man/woman that has walked the road to know how the other guy is feeling, and how to warn. I have seen many people used this way, sometime will tell you about it. A pious person does not always know nor understand; they try, and do well, but sometimes, to my mind, God uses the one he tempered in the fire. That is my observation. It is not the bringer of the news; it is what is being projected through them. They are nothing; it is the power of the spirit that is there. (smiling)

SLIDER/Abyss< LadyV: I tend to agree very much with many of the things in your last post, although they do not always settle with my feelings the way I would like. By looking at both sides, you can get a better picture.

LadyV< SLIDER/Abyss: Yes, to see both sides in all things is fair. (smiling)

order< Polgara: God, the One Force or Mind, is ever attempting to express through all creation, man included. I do not think He/It delights in the fact that our channels are not 'pure'. *S

Polgara< Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough, order. I think he delights in REVEALING his power, especially in ways which turn our human logic (and especially prejudices) upside down. That is what I meant.

order< Polgara: I see. I think God is Delight and Harmony and Love Itself, the force that is Life Itself, the Consciousness from which our consciousness emerges. Therefore, to me, this pure energy may be more to soul's benefit and awakening to the Divine Purpose. This likely does harmonize with the One. *S

Ben< ALL: Did you see my post about Barbara Brennan? She is still active, and I think she is relatively well known.

Yopo< Drawing a blank on Barbara Brennan.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: Have not heard of this Brennan person. Can you tell us some about her?

blueye< Barbara? No, I missed that post, Ben.

summer2< Have heard of her books but have not read any.

heavenly< Ben: Barbara Ann Brennan. I got her book. It's an excellent way to put auras and healing into scientific terms.

LadyV< I don't know Barbara Brennan. Is she one of the TV healers that used to be around? Kulgman was one. Never heard of Brennan.

Ben< Okay, I'll post a short paragraph on Barbara Brennan. (She wrote "Hands of Light")

Ben< Barbara Brennan works to repair the spiritual body of the person, apparently with or without the help of discarnate entities. And she transfers psychic energy to the person. Her explanation makes sense to me.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: I did watch on PBS one night about a woman healer who would bring the fragmented spirit of a person back together to make that person whole again. She worked a lot with Native Americans. It made sense to me. Is this the same person? Barbara Brennan?

Ben< SLIDER/Abyss: I didn't see that PBS special, so I don't know if it is the same person. However, re-integration of spiritual fragmentation is a method of healing.

SLIDER/Abyss< This woman's explanation was pretty intriguing, and it really kept my attention. If I find out what her name is, I will be sure to let you know.

Ben< ALL: If you are familiar with the work of Ambrose and Olga Worrall, what did they do? How did they explain it? How do you think they did it? YOUR TURN

FRAML< Ben: They focused on people who were ill, made contact, and then sent "energy/power" to them. She has a verified record of people who were healed by her. She DID NOT focus on the person being sick, but on them being well.

Yopo< Ben: I'm afraid you're gonna send some of us back for remedial reading. I shoulda looked at the prerequisites before I signed on for this particular class. *S*

SLIDER/Abyss< Yopo: Hey buddy, do you have any Cliff notes to share?

Yopo< Ben: Ambrose and Olga, not at all...

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: I may have heard of these two people, but until I hear of something they have done, it does not spark any memory.

blueye< Ben: I have never heard of them.

Mars< Ben: Perhaps it may be wise to explain who they are. I am familiar with their work, however, vaguely. I would enjoy to have a small refresher. :)

Ben< Mars: Good point. I've studied this for so long I assume most people have. I'll put together a list of recommended reading for next week (and the URLs of some used book search engines. *smile*)

Ben< ALL: The Worralls worked by prayer and the laying on of hands. They also did remote healing. They held healing sessions in their home for many years, and later led healing services at a Methodist Church in Baltimore. They accepted no payment. They both said the healing power came from God, and they were just channels of God's power. Their explanation also makes sense to me.

Lor< Yes, I met Olga Worrall on at least two occasions. She was a very kindly woman who cared for her clients and prayed for them while she laid her hands on them. She participated in a number of scientific experiments aimed at better understanding her psychic abilities.

Ben< ALL: Summary to this point: there are various approaches to spiritual healing. We will look at some more of them next week. In the meantime, here is a handy-dandy little thinking tool that may help to organize this subject. Grab a piece of paper and a pencil.

Ben< Draw a 3x3 cell box (the same as for Tic-Tac-Toe). Across the top, above the boxes, write "physical, mental/emotional, spiritual". Down the left side, outside the boxes, write "health, illness, death." Now you can put a little mark in any of the nine cells to indicate cause and effect.

Ben< For example, the cause of a psychosomatic illness is mental/emotional, but the effect is also physical. Likewise, in healing by suggestion or autosuggestion (the placebo effect), the cause is mental/emotional, but the effect is also physical.

Ben< ALL: Now, if you would, please suggest other healers and/or healing methods that you would like to discuss next week or the week after. YOUR TURN

windi< Ben: A very good point to make in regard to spiritual healing. Finding the visualization/method of healing that works best for oneself in healing work seems ultimately to be what most well known healers have done. It is interesting to note however, that even though many of us do not seem familiar with one or another of the authors you mention, many have made very astute comments regarding healing.

order< I can't think of a one. (sigh)

Aqua< It is important to pay attention to the outcome of a healing process. When the fruits of healing is calming, cooling, and remedy a patient, then we shall say the healing is okay. If more stressful emotions were seen on the patient, then the method used was improper, especially when it generates fear to the patient or to observers.

summer2< What about Rosemary Altea? She contacts the spirits of loved ones who have passed on. This is healing in a way. It helps to heal emotional and possibly physical...

5foot2< I believe we are two: the physical form and the energy that animates it, energy interacting with energy. (Focusing on negative energy drains energy; focusing on positive energy emits, better for donor and recipient). Those who see, heal or perform what often is referred to as paranormal have attained the next level of the self energy, and as such are able to effect/affect through CHOICE the energy of the environment around them. These people are not the special or chosen ones, but rather pioneers on a path that all can travel. *respectfully, from my reality*

Doucia< Ben: I am "remembering" healing, thus anything about the subject sounds good to me. *S*

Ben< Doucia: "remembering healing" Yes. *smile*

Creativlit< I would like to hear more about Reiki. Also, Ben, I am quite new to this and only recently am listening to the call to heal. What are some books you could recommend to a person like me?

Ben< Creativlit: Reiki is one of the approaches to healing with which I am not familiar enough, so I hope someone will be here who can discuss it.

Istahota< Creativlit: Look for Caroline Myess Tapes.

greyman< It is interesting that a simple low voltage DC source can be used to restore damaged nerve cells.

LadyV< greyman: Good point, engineer!!!

greyman< LadyV: Ahhhh shucks, ma'am.

order< What would happen if all were healers in this dimensional plane of consciousness, and if there was no longer any sickness, disharmony, or death? Is that what we are trying to achieve? I would like to know what others are hoping would come out of such a possibility? *S

Samanta< order: I agree!

order< Samantha: **S**

Samanta< order: But that should be our goal, isn't it? no illness, no death, no disharmony, no unlove, etc. (don't know how to write these words) *s*

blueye< Yes, it would be nice not to have illness and all of those other things, but I also feel these are lessons we choose to learn from past lives. So if healing doesn't work, then I just feel it was meant to be. One day when we all go home to our maker, then we will see no illness and suffering, is how I feel. So if it is God's will for healing to be done, then it will be.

Yopo< blueye: In my own life, illness has sometimes been a teacher. I've sorta come to see illness as a multi-dimensional event, and am not always certain where it comes from or what its purpose might be. Sometimes it does seem like a purely physical event, with purely physical, cause/effect origins. Other times, it seems like a physical manifestation of a dis-ease with emotional or spiritual aspects of my life.

SLIDER/Abyss< order: We have to remember that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. This is all a learning process. As we focus our thought we manifest our reality.

order< SLIDER/Abyss: I do remember ... but my question remains unanswered by this comment? *S

greyman< order: Time to learn a new discipline. *g*

order< greyman: New 'order'? *S*

Yopo< I'd like to hear some discussion about prayer and healing...

Ben< Yopo: Yes, we will discuss prayer and healing.

MonaHawke< Yopo: I remember hearing not too long ago that someone did an experiment with some people who were sick and/or having surgeries. They prayed for half of the group and not for the other half. The half that received prayers healed better/faster/more completely. Interesting, eh?

LadyV< I believe in the power of prayer. It is one most important factor, and as MonaHawke has said, it is now being tested. Only, if it were me, I would want to be on the side of the ones being prayed for. I have a strong faith in the power of the energy of prayer, however one prays ... does not matter ... all the same ... it is a positive force. I believe that we are aided by the universe in our prayers, and those that have gone ahead of us. It is one family regardless of our culture or our gender and race that prays with us for the sick and for humanity. And at this time we all had better get to it ... it is needed now more than ever. A man enters here sometimes late at night, and he is going to smoke his pipe. I do not know this man, but he says "Are there prayers?" and I think "Isn't that grand ... he smokes his pipe for all of us." Things are looking up, folks.

dancer< LadyV: I also believe very deeply in the power of prayer...

windi< LadyV: I agree totally with you regarding the power of prayer. People praying for something is giving energy and focus towards whatever it is they are praying for. We can all use prayers. I spend most of my 'thought' time in prayer or in thanks to the Almighty.

FRAML< I know there is a Roman Catholic Priest in California who is known as a vessel for people to be healed by God. Unfortunately I don't remember his name. But the sister of a good friend was healed during one of his Masses. He announces at the beginning that he does not do the healing, he does not guarantee who, if anyone there, will be healed. Sometimes a person is healed, other times not.

Aqua< Spiritual healing is more a kind of healing generated once a human lives impeccably in his routine life, not a healing skill that he/she acquired by learning from textbook or attending similar seminar/workshop. If that is so, it is more to be named Psychic/paranormal healing?

Doucia< Aqua: Rather, most of us are here to "remember" healing. It is through "masters" and books and seminar workshops that we start this process. We all have the gift to heal. *S*

Aqua< Doucia: Yes, you are right.

Lor< Doucia: Is it that we all have the "gift to heal" or that we all can be vessels for healing? -- that is, to be instruments in the process of permitting or causing someone to be healed, where the actual healing energy may come from some other source that we arrange to be focused on the patient. I suspect that no doctor actually heals a patient himself -- that although doctors can be very helpful, it is actually some spiritual source in the final analysis that influences the cells to do what is needed to actually effect the healing.

Doucia< Lor: Yes, good point. *smiling*

Creativlit< I guess for me the more I open myself up and allow myself to be used by the Father/Creator to heal, the more I find myself being healed.

Doucia< Very well said, Creativlit.

Ben< Creativlit: Good observation. It is a blessing to be a blessing.

Samanta< Creativlit: That should be, of course! (humble opinion)

dancer< Ben: Anything on energy healing would be wonderful ... Reiki, laying on of hands, prayer.

summer2< I believe love needs to be present for any type of healing to take place ... love and belief/knowing ... knowing that it will take place.

Yopo< I think some discussion of the perils of non-conventional healing practices might be good, too. I know of one case where a friend relied entirely on non-conventional approaches with a very serious illness, and delayed a diagnostic exam too long. She might still be with us if she had not waited. I think this is an important consideration.

Ben< Yopo: Good point. Some people insist on spiritual healing to the exclusion of other forms of healing, and sometimes to their own detriment.

Ben< /topic Discussion of spiritual healing

Ben< ALL: Please feel free to describe a healing you have received or a healing in which you have been instrumental. YOUR TURN

blueye< I participated in a healing of a child using a medicine wheel, I believe the first time ever, and it was a wonderful feeling. Felt warmth and beautiful colors and much energy. A visual of hands being laid on the child's face, much light.

Doucia< Wow, blueye, sounds amazing.

LadyV< blueye: You are blessed ... very blessed ... to have witnessed that.

FRAML< Ben: Does Christian Science work in this realm?

Ben< FRAML: Yes, of course. Christian Science is devoted to spiritual healing. We should take a look at their premises and techniques.

greyman< I would like to say it was some miraculous regeneration of some vital body part or the cure of some incurable disease, but alas, it was just a few kind words that healed a wounded heart.

5foot2< So could it be that sometimes the physical body requires healing, and sometimes the spiritual body?

[Ben< 5foot2: Yes. And oftentimes when the spiritual body is healed, the physical body heals itself by conforming to the spiritual body.]

summer2< I don't think it has to be God's will, but the will of the person being healed. It must be their will to be healed. They must allow it to happen or agree to it.

blueye< The reason I say God's will is, if it interferes with spiritual growth. Like Creativlit expressed. Yes, I agree that the healer and healee need the will also. :)

order< The soul that seeks Truth/Love and then lives that truth/love by giving truth/love will not be in conflict with itself, will not be unhealthy. *S* But, a person/soul that cheats Itself and goes against it's own most basic beliefs is creating disharmony within and illness must result if the pattern is not changed.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben: One evening after getting home from work, I jumped out of my truck, and it was very windy outside. I slammed the door shut so the wind would not take it, just as our family cat jumped into the truck. The door caught the cat half way in the body and it fell to the ground and just laid there and could not move. I took it over and put it on a table and it tried to crawl on its front legs. Fearing I had broken the cats back, I laid hands on and prayed deeply for this animal. Within a half hour the cat seemed like nothing had happened to it. I don't know if this was an actual hands-on healing, but the impact this animal took from the door should have killed it.

Ben< SLIDER/Abyss: Yes, thank you. We need to remember the healing of animals, too.

LadyV< SLIDER/Abyss: Sometime when you least expect it, you may in your dreams see a blond-headed man who is very beautiful. Look for him ... that is St. Francis. How great is your love, Slider. (smiling)

SLIDER/Abyss< LadyV: I see and talk to so many people in my dreams, I don't know if I would recognize St. Francis. *S*

LadyV< SLIDER/Abyss: He has on the robes of the monk, and the color is that of sand, like unbleached cotton ... and he shines. Do me the kindness please to tell me when he shows up. (smiling)

SLIDER/Abyss< LadyV: Will do.

Creativlit< I am not sure I would want to eliminate all illness, death, unlove, etc., from the world. These are the mechanisms that provide us with the opportunity for spiritual growth. We would become spiritually stagnant. Sometimes it is hard to see this when we go through these things, and it isn't until years later we can look back and measure our own growth.

blueye< Creativlit: I agree. :)

Samanta< Creativlit: Yes, I guess so, but in my case, I learn so slow that I jump for joy into the future, and I see the world healed, full of love, light and harmony, and the stars shining above us and Our Father smiling at us, saying to us: Good for you ... You made it, didn't you?

Creativlit< Samanta: Part of the joy for me is, as I learn to stand on my own two spiritual feet, and the more I come closer to the Creator, the more I can reach back to help others who are now where I was.

Samanta< Creativlit: How can I learn to stand on my own two spiritual feet? This sounds to me important, and I agree with your whole post.

Creativlit< Samanta: It's not something that comes easily, and for most of us, I think it take many lifetimes. I had to look into my own life and why it was such a mess, and I realized in my subconscious I was manifesting my own pain and suffering. First, it was like a spiritual assignment I had predestined myself to take on. Once I accepted this and realized I chose the pain in order to serve a higher common good, I was released from the pain. Second, I knew I was called, yet I had a subconscious fear. I had to learn to trust. This is one I am still working on. Since accepting the fact and not running from the call, I now feel more at peace with myself. Life isn't magically better. I still have problems just like everyone else, but my mentality is different. Take time, time to meditate, and ask the Creator and yourself why you are where you are and where to go. The answers are all there; we have to choose and be willing to see them. You must be close because you are now forming the questions.

Samanta< Creativlit: Wow! Just a real process. I'm going to take note on this, and really thank you very much. Much, much Love, Light and Harmony to you. Best wishes, from me. *S*

FRAML< Samanta: How do you define 'my spiritual two feet'?

Samanta< FRAML: I don't know, do you? If I did know it, I would have written the whole statement. *S*

FRAML< Samanta: Excuse me, I just found the comment by Creativlit you were responding to. Now I understand that you are seeking a way to grow spiritually.

Samanta< FRAML: It's OK. I'm trying to find my way here although I live in Wonderland, but sometimes I lose my passport. *G*

FRAML< Samanta: I meant, are you thinking of spiritual in relation to healing, or a path of belief (aka religious oriented)?

Doucia< I've never really participated in healing yet, although one time I "experimented" on my friend who was complaining of a sore back. I visioned red energy around him. To my amazement not long after he realized his sore back was gone.

windi< Lately I've been doing what I call "cleansings" of people, of the earth. The visualizations of these cleansings seem to take on a life of their own. All that seems to be required of me is that I focus on whatever it is I am desiring to "cleanse".

dancer< Ben: I have found that the healing work I have been called to do works primarily on the emotions, brings on a strong emotional release in people. I have been guided to lay hands on the chakras, starting sometimes at the soles of the feet, sometimes at the root, and let the Light flow through me into the chakras until I feel a steady strong spin coming from the person's chakra in the chakras in the palm of my hands. It is very powerful. I have had a few OBEs during the process, usually followed by several weeks of tears and emotional release.

order< When Cayce was asked by a patient if he was going to regain his health, Cayce asked him what he would do with it if he did regain it. *S What does this suggest?

greyman< order: Purpose is greater than power.

order< My point in asking the question about "What are we trying to accomplish through healing" was to show that we ourselves, collectively, do not have a vision upon which we can agree on this issue. Some say we shouldn't really want to heal all, some say we should. Until there is agreement within humanity, humanity will be disharmonious, and therefore sick within itself, as a mind is sick when it seeks two divergent lines of expression and being. *S

Ben< order: I believe we don't have to wait for the rest of the human race; as individuals, we can do more and more spiritual healing.

order< Ben: As do I ... *S*

LAGONE< Ben: Would going to Lourdes be considered healing? but of what kind? faith in God's mother or in one's self?

Ben< LAGONE: Pilgrimages to Lourdes come under the heading of faith healing. That's a major subset of spiritual healing.

Creativlit< I think going to Lourdes would be along the lines of the individual allowing themselves to be healed. The actual act of going there promotes the mechanism of belief in the healing which I feel is necessary for the individual.

Doucia< Speaking of animals and healing, I think animals can also help heal us. I remember one time, I was 7 months pregnant and home alone. I started going into premature labor. I was frightened and scared but decided to lie down before calling anyone. My cat followed me to bed and lay on my stomach. Her purring soothed me. Her eyes focused on me. Soon afterwards, the contractions stopped and I felt better then ever! Moreover, whenever there is someone sick in the house, my cat is ALWAYS with them, until they are better. *S*

Yopo< Doucia: I think there have been recent studies that show folks with loved pets are healthier and tend to live longer.

order< Yopo: The same polls say happily married people are also healthier ... and that those who worship God are healthier. *S*

SLIDER/Abyss< order: I used to get two or three colds a year until I took some of Cayce's advice about carrying a good piece of metal in my pocket, so now I carry two pocket knives of good quality metal, and haven't had a cold in about two years. Could be mind over matter? :-}

order< SLIDER/Abyss: Surely could, or it could be also vibrations. Who knows? **VBS**

5foot2< Vibrations are energy. *grin*

greyman< Interesting that my little pooch lifts and heals my worn-out spirit when I get home. Funny how a lesser being can sometimes make a difference. Who is the lesser being? *G*

5foot2< greyman: Lesser being -- less stress, less pressure, less questions. *grin*

greyman< 5foot2: LOL

windi< A bit earlier, people were talking about being "good" channels for healing energy. I have found that the more one channels energies through you, the more careful one needs to be as to diet and one's emotional/mental well-being, lest one hurt oneself through a blockage of some kind. I have also found that wielding large amounts of energy leaves me famished (unlike some of the fiction I have read where earth energies leave one unable to eat).

Yopo< Ben: What do you think of situations where some people have a multitude of seemingly unrelated illnesses? Is there something that sort of "attracts" illness? Like some folks seeming to be accident prone.

Ben< Yopo: As I pointed to with that little mental tool (the 3x3 matrix), some people have multiple and apparently unrelated symptoms of physical illness from a single mental/emotional cause -- like buried guilt or hatred.

dancer< It's probably simplistic, but I find a state of gratitude to be deeply healing.

Ben< dancer: Good point. Just as holding a grudge isn't conducive to one's health, so gratitude is conducive to the health of the one who holds it.

roya< I read somewhere that there are some very special places on earth where The Divine One has ordained to have special powers: healing, blessings, and prayers and wishes to come true! What do you all think?

windi< From what I can gather, the entity often referred to as Mary, Jesus's mother, appears in places of high earth energies. Usually over or near a natural spring (or an underground spring). She almost always asks that some kind of outdoor shrine be built, but the Catholic Church pretty much uniformly denies the Lady this request and builds an enclosed building over the spot. I know Lourdes is/was a grotto. Is it still open or have they built a Church over/around the spot? Anyway, the gist is that I think she more points out a spot which has the proper healing energies/qualities, rather than endows them with any qualities by her presence. Although certainly people's faith in her, no doubt, helps their own faith in their ability to be healed.

LadyV< The shrines are beautiful. There is power there that one touches when you put your foot on the place. It is all that energy, that yearning. It is healing by just being there ... and one touches something. Maybe we touch each other in a sense. I have puzzled over that. Maybe there we are one mind truly ... to be OK ... to be healed.

Yopo< LadyV: Maybe that is it. The places are a focus of faith and hope, and the energy people bring there remains and grows.

LadyV< Yopo: That's possible. I have one that I love very much. It is a quiet little haven, and I go there and sometimes find a man that is crippled and very old. He sits quietly, and I know he is waiting. He smiles and I smile ... and there is beauty in the silence.

tess< LadyV: In my meditative state, a shrouded person (male with white hair and a calm, loving vibration) has come to me, once passing a staff for strength. Do you know who he might be?

LadyV< tess: I believe some in here speak of guides and angels. I do not know who this is. Your heart knows, however. (smiling) You are going into a very deep meditative state to observe this. That takes time and experience. Good for you.

tess< LadyV: I think that aged man is "me" ... Does that make sense?

LadyV< tess: Yes, that I understand. There are many levels to the human brain. If you go deep enough you will touch it ... it seems you have. (smiling) We had a discussion in here last week concerning this, and one of the men that works with radio waves explained it all so scientifically. There is a point where the wave line is straight without waver. He said "Where does it go?" We discussed how we can bring our minds in meditation (as our brains are energy cells anyway) to the level of "where does it go?" Then you are into the true self. Make sense? You will see much at this level, and when you return it will be integrated into your daily life. That is where you learn. You are lucky. It will aid you in many ways.

tess< LadyV: I do feel blessed with my meditative states, and unsolicited psychic phenomena that have eventually given me much peace about myself. I allow this energy to gently flow from me. But what remains a mystery for me is my path on earth, with other humans, with the illogical sufferings and stresses. What level of responsibility do I have for individuals around me? On a social level, lots; on a spiritual level, I think every person must think and grow and walk their own path. I need others to support me at times. I hope I do the same. (only for those who I am suppose to affect)

Ben< Oh ... I forgot to add my own contribution to the last invitation: as a small example of healing prayer (inspired diagnosis and prescription) see "A New Lease on Life" on my site.

Yopo< Ben: Will do so. Several classes back, you commented that strong emotion seems to be a positive factor in strengthening psychic communications. Do you think this also applies to prayer?

Ben< Yopo: Yes, positive emotion (reverent joy and caring for another) is necessary for receptive prayer, and for the act of blessing by which much healing is channeled.

Yopo< Ben: I've noticed that. "Answered" prayers in the past have generally been made in emotionally-charged states of mind. Sometimes in a sense of quiet desperation. It is puzzling, though. Creator certainly isn't hard-of-hearing, so you wouldn't think shouting would be more likely to attract attention. *LOL*

FRAML< Yopo: Just as a baby cries out to be heard above the din of noise.

windi< The squeaky wheel gets the grease? ;-)

Yopo< windi: Yep. Could be I get my own attention when I shout. *S*

windi< Yopo: Maybe you engage your higher self when you intensely pray about something, and in your focus draw the desired outcome to yourself (with God's approval, of course, if you are/were praying to God).

Ben< Yopo: In my opinion, "prayer is the heart's sincere desire" describes it pretty well. Some churchy, wordy prayers don't get through the ceiling.

order< Ben: God knows when the heart is speaking.

LadyV< Ben: I agree. Especially when the request is for healing, "pray without waver" and many do. It is the sincere heart that is heard, literally the desire of the heart, in earnest appeal. You are right, but we have to be careful; sometimes we get what we pray for. (laughing) Learned that one the hard way.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Abyss: That is why Slider does not go to church! Slider creates his own surroundings for prayer.

Ben< SLIDER/Abyss: For Abyss: I'm not surprised. In my opinion, SLIDER has a portable church. As I do.

Yopo< SLIDER/Abyss: Yep. Got a personal problem with churches, though I wish it were not so. I pray best out-of-doors, or in the quiet of the night.

Creativlit< I pray best outdoors myself, or just alone with a little smudge and the sounds of the drums. I always can hear the spirit no matter where I am, sometimes when I don't really want to listen.

tess< Yopo: Try going into empty churches; it's nicer then. My favorite "church" is a woody park. *S*

Creativlit< I'm partial to the Mountain-top church myself. I seem to have met a lot of the bad stuff in the churches.

Lor< Nite all. Blessings be upon you from the LIGHT, until next time. Thanks to all for sharing your respect and insights. Do each pray for beneficial inspiration that can be shared at the next session. *poof*

Aqua< Everything is alive! Even the universe itself is growing and/or shrinking. The Cause/Effect Law applies to both the material and immaterial realm. Healing can be viewed from many angles. The important issue here is to heal a patient properly; the second issue is how and where did we get the power to heal? Is it because living impeccably with practicing love, or learned from a book, etc.? We were born equipped with many 'skills' but some of them are not yet unveiled until he/she lives towards divine love practices. Do not ask for healing power from the other side: cause/effect will bind us. The universe is full of love, chairs, tables, walls, atmospheres, animals and insects, sands, oxygen, etc.. They are all one with us. What we have to do is just to realize and accept.

Yopo< Aqua: I totally agree.

Ben< ALL: Okay, dear hearts and gentle people, the second hour is up, and I need to go toes-up for awhile. Peace and blessings to each and all. *poof*

[The following dialogue was basically on-topic, but scattered through the seminar. I collected it and moved it down here so it would be easier to follow.]

order< tess: I am in Amazon, because I wanted to hear how Mr. E. Cayce was going to fair in SWC. It is always amazing what opinions pop up around subjects like this. **S

tess< order: I like fragmentation. I think there is room for all perspectives on healing, and I need to hear them as I struggle to make up my own mind.

order< tess: There is room for lots of diversity, but does 'diversity' bring Unity? It can, but often it does not. When two divergent desires, beliefs, are held at once, or at the same time, friction and disharmony are the result. Unhealthy. *S*

tess< order: No, in my meditative state, when I get close to the "higher" I understand that black is white and white is black. The "limitations" with linear thought (one choice is right) is restricted to the earth-plane. And with healing, I am unsure whether I am to become a healer or continue healing absent-mindedly as I do. I don't want the requests, I just give naturally. *S*

order< tess: In Meditation, when the mind is still, one may indeed bring opposites together as in the One. In sickness these opposing forces are NOT in harmony, something is tearing the Unity ...thus resulting in illness. In Meditation, healing may be instantaneously obtained by the lifting of the Mind to the level of the Soul/Divine Unity. I have experienced this myself. But in these times of healing, the mind is beyond any conflicting beliefs, ideas. *S

tess< order: When meditating I am not asking for healing. I just want to embrace the divine. There is no dis-harmony, just peace. *S* But on earth, I have many questions about my path and my actions when other people are involved. It is very natural to give healing to animals, and receive it from them. But humans are so complex, and often hurting. *S*

order< tess: Yes, that is exactly what my course was, too. A similarity here to be noted! Humans hurt because they are in confusion within themselves or are in rebellion against their most basic, inherent beliefs about Life, God, Good-Bad, Love-non-Love, self-others-God. *S

tess< order: Humans hurt because they have forgotten that they are god. *S*. I agree that confusion about belief can make a soul hurt, but I think "belief" is relative. A sadist who believes in what she/he is doing can sleep well at night, yet I would have a problem with the sadist, her beliefs and actions.

order< tess: This is only true *if* the sadist is not in conflict with himself at any level. How can we know how these people really sleep with themselves anyway? (chuckle) You are not weighed against the sadist beliefs, but against your own, and these are not the surface beliefs. True beliefs of soul are sometimes seen as innate understanding, urges, and the spontaneous action-reaction of what is called the conscience, which is ever awake. When this attribute of soul stops talking or stops being heard, the soul is either in Harmony with self or in big trouble (heheh) because it has tuned out it's own Soul/Spirit.

tess< order: Wading through your words, not sure I grasped it all. I think the soul and the social conscience are (or can be) two different things. Look at the Buddha and Jesus for example: both had to leave normal society to meditate. Buddha just decided to leave this plane *S* and Jesus tried to come back to society and tell others how to get in tune. (And we know what happened to him, as well as Joan of Arc, etc.). In my growth, I am very spiritual intuned/peaceful, but coming back into Canadian society is tricky because many people's actions or intent does not make sense. I went into a convent for a rest, but decided I should be on the outside. I am still walking over stones, it seems. *S*

LadyV< tess: Hummm, do you wonder why you are here tonight? Could it be that we who search as you are searching, and are learning as you are learning, do indeed support each other? I have found it so in here. This is more than just a place to chat; it is a place to share ... meaning ourselves with each other. The people that enter here and stay and take it seriously do turn to each other. I do, and it is such a comfort. I have many sharers in 3D but none as here. These are people that make changes ... quiet ones, but changes none the less. The path you seek will unfold in time ... and it takes time ... not to rush, just allow. Grace has a way to open the door ... give it time ... it will unfold as you go along.

tess< LadyV: Yes, I like the energy of this room, and truly appreciate the sharing. Even in the Henge, there can be lessons. But (honestly), I have found it difficult to find "very spiritual" people here. There are many hurting souls here. I hunger for spiritual sharing on a fairly high level that is cushioned with love and humility, but have yet to get off the ground, so to speak, with people here. How do you connect spiritually with others? (without theirs or my humanity clouding the waters)

LadyV< tess: The members of the convent are praying for you, I bet, and all are busy loving you as well. So where you walk they and Grace are there with you. That makes you not alone ... ever. Don't have to stumble ... pick up your feet, girl. (smiling)

----------

Here are some books about spiritual healers:

Sugrue, Thomas, "There Is A River: The Story of Edgar Cayce"
(Dell, first printing 1967)

Stearn, Jess, "Edgar Cayce: The Sleeping Prophet"
(Doubleday, 1967; Bantam, 1968)

Fuller, John G., "Arigo: Surgeon of the Rusty Knife"
(Pocket Books, 1975)

Brennan, Barbara Ann, "Hands of Light"
(Bantam, 1988)

Worrall, Ambrose and Olga, "The Gift of Healing"
(Harper & Row, 1965; Ariel Press, 1985)

Ceruti, Edwina, "Mystic With The Healing Hands"
(Harper & Row, 1977)

Miller, Robert N., "Miracles In The Making"
(Ariel Press, 1996)

Edwards, Harry, "The Power of Healing"
(Award Books, 1968)

Here are three used-book search engines:

Advanced Book Exchange
http://abebooks.com/

Bibliofind
http://www.bibliofind.com/

Interloc
http://www.interloc.com/

----------

13. Spiritual Healing
Session 2: Sat 19 Sep 1998

Ben< ALL: Tonight, I'd like to explore some of the subsets of spiritual healing. I believe the most common is psychosomatic healing (Greek: psyche = soul or mind + soma = body) so I will start there.

Ben< Psychosomatic illness and psychosomatic healing are both caused by the subconscious mind, through its linkage to the nerves and glands of the physical body. Thus, the source is spiritual (non-material) but the effects are biophysical.

Ben< Psychosomatic effects are normal rather than paranormal, common rather than unusual. People often discover for themselves that dwelling on certain thoughts or beliefs can make them sick, whereas dwelling on other thoughts or beliefs can (within limits) make them well.

Ben< Psychosomatic effects are often called the power of suggestion or auto-suggestion. The positive effects are called the power of positive thinking or the placebo effect. Some people have belittled these effects -- "It's all in your mind" -- but I believe this cause-and-effect mechanism is very important.

Ben< ALL: Do you have an example of a thought or belief that makes you sick? What is the antidote? Or, if you prefer, do you have an example of a thought or belief that has a healing effect in you? YOUR TURN

Ben< For example, I don't watch TV anymore, and haven't for several years, because I don't want to put garbage into my mind, and I don't want commercials to manipulate my mind. I find my reaction to most commercials is resentment, and I know that resentment isn't good for me. It releases a bunch of bothersome biochemicals that I don't want to have floating around in my bloodstream.

Willow< Ben: *s* That happens often in the work I am doing now. Some of the calls are truly heart-wrenching. I'm learning to call in Spirit to surround both the caller and myself, and help me to act from beyond those emotions and provide what is needed ... which often is simply an ear.

[Ben< Willow: Yes ... I have heard it said: "The gift of ears is better than the gift of tongues."]

Lightdreamer< When I feel "restricted" I develop respiratory problems. *laughing* I get "stopped up" in my sinuses. I feel most restricted when I react emotionally to a situation that I choose to view as limiting to my freedom to express myself.

Ben< Lightdreamer: Good illustration.

Blinder< Ben: I'm afraid that I am not sufficiently in touch with myself to be able to answer your question.

Ben< Blinder: Okay.

greyman< As to question 1, yes, of course. Antidote depends on severity. Question 2, yes, yes, yes, ACCOMPLISHMENT is a great cure for the self-indulged. *G*

SLIDER< Positive thinking will shore up the outcome of any thought or presumed assumption, even if the expected outcome is not up to one's expectations. Having negative feelings while thinking of the same outcome usually shows, also, no matter the outcome.

Amatrine< The placebo effect I was just last night listening to on tapes recorded by Deepak Choppra.

Creativlit< Not sure, but I know if I don't force myself to take time out and rest, I get flare-ups of arthritis.

SylverEyes< I am feeling iffy right now -- but then again, I'm sleepy, I got kicked in the head at martial arts practice, and I have this bruise swelling up on my leg. I don't really know if it's psychosomatic; methinks I just shoulda blocked faster. *grin* Other than that, I have been feeling sad, but not depressed, because a friend of mine just broke contact. Maybe that's why I'm feeling iffy. Ugh.

bluestar< Positive thought ... the upcoming changes, faith in God, that all things happen for the better.

Zilphia< I had a dream that was about a bad experience I once had. It felt so real it made me very upset for a couple of days no matter what I did to rid myself of these thoughts.

Aqua< To avoid such psychosomatic illness side effect is to accept that nothing is perfect and then realize its potential damages and contributions, such as why it happened to us. What caused it? ... "smoke comes from fire."

Ben< ALL: Do you ever get a lump in your throat -- like when you are suddenly called upon to speak in public? YOUR TURN

Blinder< Yep, big time. *g*

Willow< Yes ... more commonly ... pressure on my chest.

Blinder< Heart pounding like a bass drum ...

Creativlit< I don't get the throat lump, but I get really nauseous and a headache every time I have to walk into my kid's elementary school. He is disabled and I'm always in conflict with the school

Lightdreamer< I only get a lump in my throat when I'm holding back tears, but I do get a physical reaction to nerve-wracking things like speaking in public. For me it is butterflies in the stomach for a brief moment before I get centered and focused ... then it disappears.

Blinder< That feeling of centering, Lightdreamer, is it the process of connecting to, then surrendering to spirit ?

Lightdreamer< Blinder: Yes, of focusing consciousness on Source and affirming Spirit's Will and Highest Good. It is MY "placebo effect" and not quite as simple a process as I've just described, but that is for another discussion. Remind me later.

SylverEyes< You know ... occasionally, very rarely, I get flashes of pain across my heart/chest area. Kinda like a stabbing, brief pain, and then it disappears.

LEGS< Ben: I sicken at the thought of the Holocaust, and I try to avoid it ... not an antidote as much as avoidance.

Ben< LEGS: Yes. Sometimes we do need to avoid dwelling on certain things. Especially if we can't do anything about it.

[A rather long pause]

Minus< All these people and no one is talking?

Ben< COMMENT: The psychosomatic mechanism works within the individual, rather than externally, but it can be influenced by others. The key is the person's subconscious belief. This is how a shaman can sometimes heal by "removing" stones or similar objects from a person's body and displaying them to that person.

Ben< ALL: Hypnosis is one way to bypass the conscious mind (and its defenses) and work directly with the subconscious mind. Hypnosis can be used for healing, in which case it is called hypnotherapy. What do you think about this approach to healing? Do you have an example? What do you think are its strengths and weaknesses? Potential benefits and dangers? YOUR TURN

Willow< When used with integrity hypnosis can be a valuable tool; when misused it can be extremely damaging.

LadyV< Willow: I agree.

Ben< Willow: Good point. Hypnosis can be misused.

Nifty_Nada< I thought hypnosis is dangerous because it bypasses the free will.

LadyV< Nifty_Nada: Subliminal messages are easy to transmit. TV is a good tool for hypnosis ... the use of the light alone can send you out. But the law requires (I think) at least one other person to be there with you before you enter into hypnotic trance ... to protect you.

Nifty_Nada< Thanks, LadyV. Bartering the free will is too high of a price when other methods are available.

Creativlit< I haven't had any experience yet with hypnosis, but am very interested in trying it with my disabled child. Thought it might be worth a try also to recall the memory of pain relief for my pain issues.

SLIDER< All would depend on the motives of the hypnotist and the strength of the subject's beliefs in the type of treatment in question.

Zilphia< My first thought is, it would be too defenseless, open to abuse by many means. I like energy healing treatments better.

ELF!< I tried hypnotherapy for grief counseling after mother died. Didn't find it very effective. I'm not easily hypnotized.

Lightdreamer< *laughing* There's a whole seminar inherent in that one post, Ben. Okay ... starting off ... I think the use of hypnotherapy can be a wonderful healing tool IN THE RIGHT HEALER'S HANDS. Careful and effective ability to discern is very important here. Of course, that is the main weakness in the treatment ... in the wrong hands it can create as much harm as it can potentially heal -- sometimes even inadvertently through ignorance rather than ill intent. On the other hand, it can be VERY effective if both the person receiving the treatment and the hypnotist are in total Trust and High Intent -- and the hypnotherapist is well trained.

Ben< Lightdreamer: Well said. Thank you.

order< I am always wondering if hypnosis can be accredited to the application of 'will' in the individual or is in some way merely a quick band-aid for this lifetime, rather than real soul growth? (Probably a silly question but it is a real one for me.)

Ben< order: I think that's a good question. No matter how beneficial hypnosis may be -- and it can be and often is very beneficial -- I see it as a band-aid, this-life sort of therapy, because it leaves the patient dependent on the hypnotist.

Yopo< I think there's little question that hypnosis can effectively deal with psychosomatic illness, and often help with the symptoms of illnesses that have a real physical basis ... to lessen or alleviate surgical pain, for example. Might be a couple of dangers, though: removing pain that serves to warn of a physical cause that should be attended to; or removing a psychosomatic symptom without tending to an underlying psychological problem.

[Ben< Yopo: Good description of strengths and weaknesses of hypnotherapy.]

Blinder< As to part two, hypnosis is a non-invasive means of activating the body's own healing mechanisms. To be implemented, however, the person in need of healing must surrender their will to that of the hypnotist, an action that may or may not be to their benefit. In addition, by abdicating their will in this fashion, they may become dependent on the practitioner.

Ben< Blinder: Good point.

Zilphia< I like what you say, Binder. I don't think that to surrender will could ever be good.

order< Well, I feel better -- I am not the only one who questions this in respect to Will. *Smile*

ELF!< My hypnotherapist tried to seduce me!

LadyV< ELF: Hope you put him/her in jail!

ELF!< LadyV: No, I just changed therapists. Went to a woman. She did psycho-synthesis.

Aqua< Psychosomatic illness arises due to the person's ways of perceptions to outside pressure. The root of this is the 'fear'... fear of unable to be public figure, fear of not success, fear of not able to accomplish task properly, or fear of failure. If it is the person's perception, then it might help by hypnotism, but if the hypnotic process is demanding or forcing the person to accept his idea, I believe more damage will be the outcome. We must help this 'failure' person by providing the right answers to: why afraid? what worried about? etc.

*Gracie< I tried hypnosis to stop smoking. Had a nice nap and went to the car and had a ciggie. Not too big on hypnosis. If it takes my cooperation to work, why not self-heal? I trust me, first and foremost.

LEGS< In this little town we used to have two doctors who would deliver babies with the mother under hypnosis. They had lovely babies and no after-effects of drugs. Of course the natural childbirth technique is a bit of hypnotherapy as well ... conditioning therapy.

Minus< This sounds like a huge Dianetics meeting. Anyone seen L. Ron Hubbard's spirit?

Lightdreamer< Hypnotherapy can be very effective when used to bypass conscious blocks (memory blocks, usually) so underlying issues creating the psychosomatic illness can be dealt with -- getting to the source, so to say. Again, it would take the right therapist and a sufficient level of trust to be of any real value. I personally think that I would be very, very, very careful before entering into that kind of agreement with anyone ... but I can't say that I NEVER would.

Blinder< The problem I see with hypnosis is that you will never learn to surrender to spirit within yourself, if you seek to surrender to another. To that extent it can be a cop-out, so to speak.

Lightdreamer< I think that the right therapist, with right intent, can be an assistance INTO self ... to move past fear. One that would attempt to take over the process and not teach the ability to become self-sufficient in this area shouldn't be practicing in the first place.

Blinder< Agreed, Lightdreamer, but to be able to determine that level of integrity would require a high level of discernment, would it not ?

Lightdreamer< It is important to remember, too, that it has been proven that no one under hypnosis can be forced to act or think against their core beliefs and values. So, in light of that, I believe we do maintain some self-will when under hypnosis. I believe that it becomes more of a "cooperative will" situation where both act in tandem to the patient's benefit. Brain-washing, of course, is an entirely different story and requires very different techniques and a more extended period of time both in and out of hypnosis.

[Ben< Lightdreamer: Hypnosis can be used to alter core beliefs and values. That is how it usually works in hypnotherapy -- and how it can be misused.]

bluestar< I have seen hypnosis mixed with hallucinogenic drugs with extremely effective and totally unethical results. I think giving one's power to someone when one is extremely vulnerable is not the best way to go about healing oneself. I feel hypnotism should be a last resort method. I find it disturbing to see many people turning to it for so many things these days.

Yopo< bluestar: Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think effective hypnosis and suggestion necessarily depend on the subject surrendering his or her will to the hypnotist.

bluestar< Yopo: Perhaps you are right, but (imo) hypnosis works mainly with the body ... helping the mind to step aside, so to speak. But clinically, you are probably more knowledgeable about hypnosis than I am. For instance, I would not quite agree with Lightdreamer's statement ... because, although technically she may be correct, a hypnotist can arrange the setting which the subject is in, which may allow the subject to act in a certain way that they would not otherwise act .

Creativlit< I looked at hypnosis, weighing that method versus taking narcotic medications over long periods of time. To me hypnotherapy seemed more of a way for me to take the control of my own health back.

Ben< Creativlit: Drugs can be effective. So can hypnosis. But I think self-hypnosis (auto-suggestion) is more freeing than either of them.

Zilphia< Words of Power, Ben?

[Ben< Zilphia: Yes, "words of power" usually refers to the use of auto-suggestion.]

SLIDER< Ben: I agree about auto-suggestion, although I think there are times when hypnosis may be necessary to open a person to their own potential.

LadyV< In cases of abuse, in particular with children, this method helps. Children block out what the mind cannot comprehend. This is done very carefully and with legal surroundings. For adults, the will is fixed (generally). Creativlit has a good point ... it would require much trust to do this.

ELF!< There are a lot of charlatans out there. My mom went to "the" hypnotherapist in Hollywood -- he was very well known at the time. He tried to have an affair with her. AND she sent me to him. I was about l9 at the time.

Minus< It sounds like a Dianetics meeting in there.

LadyV< I feel that cults are a type of hypnotic suggestion. Many are formed in the name of healing. Many of the old-time religions were a form of group hypnosis. And so as not to offend anyone in here ... I am not knocking this, just stating that is my opinion ... the trance state induced by a strong willed leader who can manipulate people is very powerful suggestion.

Blinder< Then hypnosis can come in many different forms ...

order< LadyV: I do not think that people are so weak-willed as you suggest. If the leader is popular, it is because he speaks that which the hearts of those hearing identify with ... at least for a time.

pev< I went to a hypnotist. The event scheduled was a visit from my father, and I had become totally unhinged. At the time I was also not able to move either of my arms to a level above my shoulders easily ... tendonitis, I suppose ... and, for one of them, throwing myself out of a bus to land on the left one so as not to go to work in that year and a half I was off ... another story. Anyway, they both hurt bad. I sat in a chair, upright, took off my shoes, my watch and my glasses. She gave me a blanket ... and talked to me. I never once went "under" like I thought I would. But somehow she was able to take me to a place where I was able to relate to and connect with past pain. I screamed real loud (had to calm and connect and make friends with her doggie who was real upset afterward). But after it was over I was able to move my arms. I said to her "This is incredible, what you did." She said to me "We danced, that's all. We danced."

ELF!< Guess I have not had a lot of luck with a hypnotherapist. They have not had the ability to hypnotize me, and they have tried to seduce me. My mother had just died. I was depressed. I was a spoiled only child. I couldn't leave the house in the morning without talking to my hypnotherapist. He was actually a very kind man.

order< I do not think psychology has really been around long enough for us to determine it's real value to the soul. And while hypnosis under another is risky, self-hypnosis is not, and contrary to what the psychologists suggest, the self is not hidden away from us; we simply choose not to look. Often another may force us to look; that is sometimes good and sometimes bad. Healing comes, however, from the individual's own understanding and assessment of that which is revealed. In the realm of mind, except where the body is so disordered as to cause mental imbalance, the individual is best equipped to heal itself. (IMHO)

Yopo< Ben: Maybe there's a real question, though, about how much of a part suggestion and belief play in ALL healing practices. I think perhaps a skilled physician is using the power of suggestion all the time, often without even realizing it.

Ben< Yopo: I started with psychosomatic healing (suggestion and belief) so we will later be able to distinguish some types of healing (like energy transfer) that don't depend on the subject's belief or even knowing about it.

Yopo< Ben: Ah ... *S*

Ben< ALL: Last week, several people said something about the need for a healer to have faith and/or be pure and/or be a clear channel. I'd like to revisit that subtopic now. Someone with no faith, personally impure, with no channel at all, can sometimes heal by triggering the psychosomatic healing mechanism in a sick person. This is how many fake healers actually achieve some success. But what do we mean by "faith" and "pure" in the context of spiritual healing? What is "a clear channel" ? How does it work? YOUR TURN

SLIDER< Fake healers trigger the auto-suggestion of the person through that person's own will to be healed -- in other words, the sick heal themselves without even knowing the so-called "healer" did not initiate the healing.

order< SLIDER: This is ever the case in healing. Healing comes from the consent of the soul/Spirit, with it's recognition of and application of Harmony in/to all levels or dimensions of Self.

SLIDER< order: Just goes to show that when you believe in yourself and know you have no bounds, anything can happen!

order< SLIDER: It is my belief that one must simply get and stay in touch with that which it calls God, Higher Mind, Higher Self, and to understand and remain in accord with It to retrieve and to maintain health on all levels. The Self is not fooled by the little self which is playing in this dimension with itself. Beliefs are very important energies and each soul must know what it inherently believes, and remain steadfastly in accord with these beliefs, or change them if they are proven to be in error. In other words, if one would be healthy, one should "Be what they pray to Be." *S*

SLIDER< Let us not forget that "The Trickster" will do great things -- for a price, if some are willing to go that far?

Aqua< Satan, Genie, devils can provide us all the powers that we need from them to cure anyone!! ... but is it the way we want it? *S*

Lightdreamer< The power of suggestion again ... if the PATIENT has faith in the healer, then there is often a focus on the positive (placebo effect) and the illness abates. That is a simple transfer of energy that has more to do with the patient's willingness to receive than with the healer's ability to give. The patient is open and receives what he/she perceives, regardless of the vessel the healing is represented through. As for "faith, purity, and a clear channel" ... those are the marks of a healer who KNOWS Source and can transmit/exchange energy regardless of the patient's ability to perceive/believe in the method of healing.

Aqua< Most of us have not really understood the true nature of what is a human, yet talk about some of the human capabilities as if they comprehend 100% the contents. We human is constituent of Soul (Etheric) + Body (Matter) + Spirit being (Lights Form) ... the union is the self or personalities. As we are of 3 composition plus the union (self), so we have four energy sources to investigate. Care must be observed when doing remedy to anyone. The basis must be right, otherwise more damaging effect is caused instead of healing. *S*

pev< Who cares where or how the healing occurs? If healing occurs, isn't the goal achieved? What, then, of clarity of channel? I, personally, have been able to achieve pretty awesome acts of healing. Do I consider myself a clear channel? No ... sometimes, but not all the time, and certainly not consistently. In one of my last "healings" the guides said to me "It sometimes is of benefit to take unto yourself the other person's suffering." This went totally against everything that I'd heard before, but because they'd said it, I had to take a step back and think a little about it. And it made sense to me to a degree. We don't do this for the glory. And there is a point where the healer needs to guard themselves ... or at least to rid themselves of what they have absorbed from another person if that is the only way to do it.

Aqua< pev: The side-effects that you obtained as the result of healing others are the ANTI-MATTER ASPECTS. You can get it off easily. Find nearby conductive materials, rub your hands about 30 cm up and down for minimum 3 to 4 times, depending on how long you had been contacted, or use salty-water to clean it. *S*

[Ben< pev: Taking on another person's suffering is an ancient method of healing, but many healers have said it isn't necessary and isn't the best method. For an example of how I inadvertently took on another person's suffering, and what I did to get rid of it, see "One Way Of Healing" on my site.]

Yopo< Guessing here ... Uh, the true healer would need to have faith in his or her effectiveness as a healer ... And would need to have purity of purpose -- a desire to be instrumental in the healing process, without ulterior motives such as desire to satisfy ego, desire for material gain, etc. This might tie into "a clear channel". A clear channel must be a pure channel.

Zilphia< Pure intent for the good of all would be important, as well as open heart (in fact all chakras) to channel energy.

Creativlit< I am not sure about the physical self being pure, because I think, in the very nature of being human, that's impossible for us. More like purity of intent. Are we healing our own ego and intent? or setting our own personal ego aside and allowing the healing to come from the Creator? I may think healing my friend of his headaches is the right thing to do, but the Creator may intend the headaches as a mechanism for a greater spiritual healing.

LadyV< Creativlit: I agree with you. The spirit will sometimes pick you up and put you elsewhere if the time is not right ... that is wisdom. *smiling*

bluestar< I think Jesus often made the remark, when people would exclaim about his powers of healing, that it was not him, but the faith of the person that had healed them.

[Ben< bluestar: Sometimes Jesus said "Your faith has made you well" -- and sometimes he didn't. It is worthwhile to study the variety of healing methods he demonstrated.]

LEGS< Clear channel ... as in allowing the healing to flow directly from God through the healer who acts as a conduit and focuses the healing energy upon the proposed recipient. And pure is not mixing the healer's energies into the process, remaining in a relaxed focus, not actively sending one's own energies.

Ragsii< Although I am not worthy to speak to such a group, I believe that faith healing prompts the 85% of the brain we don't use to be used. I believe that sometime in the future we will learn to use that unused portion, and medicine, as we know it today, will cease to exist.

Aqua< Whoever can comprehend the cause (not understanding only) shall be able to perceive the truth of what is natural healing or paranormal healing or psychic healing. They are of different background skills involved. I might heal anyone using external powers or semi-pure powers ... but remember that universe is full of ordering Laws. No one can escape these Laws. Must comply and comprehend the Laws to perceive the why, what, when. *S*

bluestar< I think it is more important to the healer's overall well-being that s/he is a clear and worthy channel so as not to harm him/herself when working with powerful energies.

Ben< ALL: Good, thoughtful inputs. Thank you.

Blinder< I believe you've described two different healing methods, psychosomatic and spiritual, and while not exclusive of each other, I do feel they are distinct.

Ben< Blinder: In the first meeting of this series, I defined spiritual healing very broadly, so as to include self-healing by psychosomatic effect. I believe that each of us is, after all, a spirit (soul), so when we heal ourselves by positive thinking, that is a form of spiritual healing.

Blinder< *nods*

Aqua< Is there any effect without cause? How could there be high if no low, or heat without cold, day without night? *S*

order< Aqua: Contemplate Love ... it has no motive other than Love, it creates only Love, it calls nothing back onto itself else it would not 'be' Love. Thus, Love is not Karmic? *S*

Aqua< order: Love is part of Karmic. The opposite of Love is Fear ... cause/effect, Love/Fear, sin/alms ...

order< Aqua: The opposite of Love is not fear, but apathy. Yet Love does not set apathy into motion by it's motion. Rather it simply flows. Your assumption of karma is, I think, inaccurate. Opposites are not generated from karma, likenesses are. Thus is it said, if you kill by the sword, you will be killed by the sword. Karma is like energies returning, not opposite energies being set into motion. *S*

[Ben< Apathy is neither love nor fear; it is the absence of interest and emotion.]

Lightdreamer< I think that being "pure" and a "clear channel" has much to do with intent, too. I agree with that completely. It's a matter of willingness to move ego and preconception aside, and affirm/allow Highest Good/Will for the patient ... bringing the Light and Energy to serve whatever the soul being treated needs ... whether it is getting well, or assistance with acceptance, or with transition. "Healing" is not always a matter of "getting well."

Ben< ALL: As an example of one type of pure intentions, I invite you to see my report, "Two Acts of Blessing". It was a consciously chosen exercise on my part.

Lightdreamer< Thanks, Ben ... will do that after the session.

Ben< COMMENT: Concerning a clear channel: Olga Worrall didn't believe in reincarnation. When asked why not, she said it was because she couldn't afford to believe in karma -- the very thought that the person might have brought the illness on himself or herself blocked her healing channel.

order< Ben: The thought of Karma immediately brought the understanding to me that if I caused this sickness at some level of my being, then I could also alleviate it. So it gave me more freedom and creative power over my situation ... not less.

Ben< order: Yes, I see that understanding of karma as applied to oneself. Olga's problem was in how it applied in the person she was attempting to heal, and she learned by experience that type of thought blocked her channel.

bluestar< Ben: Perhaps if Olga had your understanding of karma, it would not have been such a block to her.

Ben< bluestar: I have to set aside any thought that the illness may have been chosen by the individual, or a result of karma, or personal sin, or the will of God for that individual. Those assumptions block my channel, too. I simply say to myself "Nevertheless, I will help this person if I can." And then I do what I can.

LadyV< Ben: That is fairness to all, I feel ... and I agree with you. Charity is being a Christian or a Buddha or whatever the label is ... it all amounts to charity ... (smiling) and charity heals.

messenger< Ben: My enlightened guru teaches that there is only one law in creation, the law of cause and effect (karma). Whatever actions you do, be it good or bad, the fruits of those actions will return to you in this life or in a future life. Only grace from god or guru can lessen or totally alleviate one's karma.

Samanta< messenger: How can grace from God or guru totally alleviate ones karma?

messenger< Samanta: Grace from god (guru) is the supreme power. Grace can instantly give the worst sinner instant full liberation if it wants. Grace can heal any sickness in an instant. To attain god's grace is the goal of all spiritual effort, because without grace full liberation is impossible.

Samanta< messenger: I agree with you; however, to have the Grace of the Supreme God in all His extent is not very usual, is it?

Ben< messenger: I agree that actions have consequences -- and so do desires that aren't acted upon. I believe most important is our development of the habit of helping when we can, without attachment to the feed-back to us. In other words: to help as we can, with no strings attached. Thus we are free.

messenger< Ben: Yes, friend, my great teacher says the same truth: do actions but have no attachment to the results of the actions; leave the fruits or results of the actions to god.

Tracey< Ben: Yes, and a wonderful gift for the giver as well as the receiver when truly given as "unconditional" help. *S*

Zilphia< I agree with Z. Budapest when she says karma ends with death; it is simply a matter of cause and effect. Reincarnation is a spiritual agreement of another sort.

order< E. Cayce did not think karma ended with death, but was often carried over to be dealt with in the next life, when it was not resolved in this one. Karma may largely be seen in one's emotional responses to people, ideas, things, and situations around us. Study emotional response if you would understand your karmic influences ... if I understood Cayce correctly.

Yopo< Hmm ... But the healer might BE an instrument of the wheel, arriving on the scene when it is time for the effect of some past event to end. This could get durn complicated. Could give myself a headache thinkin' about it. *LOL*

Aqua< The Karma concept shall lead us to reincarnation concept ... fire emits smoke. *S*

Ragsii< I think Jesus knew that within each of us, the power to heal existed. Forgive my impertinence, but I think we are all part of Jesus/God and have pieces (if not the whole) of everything God has. We just haven't learned to use it yet. We will when we "die" and become spirits. Oh, how complicated.

Creativlit< I understand your thinking, Ragsii.

Ragsii< Thank you, Creativlit. I have no reason to believe as I do, I just do. Doesn't it make sense that we are all part of the whole? We are the leaves of a tree. Without us, the tree would not exist. There is no evil (devil/Hitler/etc.), only people that are here to learn.

Creativlit< Gotcha, Ragsii: Part of the collective conscious ... can discuss it with you another time. It's a whole discussion all by itself.

order< Ragsii: I think Jesus knew that healing was dependent upon our feeling right about ourselves on the deepest levels. Thus, sometimes healing comes through forgiving another's sins, sometimes through the idea that one has suffered enough and the doctor's medicine will not take effect, sometimes just by thinking a new thought. A Spiritual adjustment. Not that healing is somewhere hiding in a secret chamber waiting to be used, but it is rather the reaction to the soul's 'rightness' with itself and it's highest Ideal.

SLIDER< order: I agree with your opinion on healing.

order< SLIDER: *S*

Lightdreamer< order: YES! That is my belief of what a healer today should model themselves after ... healing the patient's knowingness of SELF ... the inner belief ... using the energy to heal whatever is in Highest Good to be healed, whether it is the body, the mind, the spirit, and then manifesting Within from there for what is needed on the patient's individual path. "Not MY will but THINE" ...

Aqua< Spiritual healing is more powerful than psychic healing methods ... big differences. *S* JUST BE CAREFUL. USE IT WISELY. Remember always "those who sow shall reap" (this includes the healers). *S* Make sure where our healing powers are from ...

SLIDER< Aqua: You are good to remind us all of discernment in that which we seek --- for ourselves and for the others that we wish to help.

Lightdreamer< My personal belief is that the healer doesn't have to concern him/herself with karma at all if intent is placed in Highest Good and the treatment/energy exchange is allowed to manifest WHATEVER the patient needs rather than becoming attached to a specific outcome.

Creativlit< I agree, Lightdreamer.

order< Lightdreamer: Yes, heal according to the patient's needs ... this Jesus did, I think. He knew and understood spiritually where the patient was ailing, and spoke to the patient there, at that level of disharmony within. *S

bluestar< I think I see what you are saying. It is difficult, if not impossible, to heal someone who does not want to be healed. And in the case of someone who will not release the attitude which is causing a karmically induced illness, such would be the case.

SLIDER< bluestar: When I come in contact with a person that will not try to heal themselves, for whatever reasons of their own, I pray for them to see the situation they have put themselves in, and that they become aware of the self-help they can have if they choose.

bluestar< SLIDER: I do the same when I encounter such people. I think it a wise (and compassionate) path.

Ben< /topic Discussion of spiritual healing

Yopo< Ben: Re: your comments about Creator's Will and karma notwithstanding: Is it helpful to know the possible origins of an illness to spiritually deal with it? To know if its origins are psychosomatic, physical, or maybe a bit of both?

Ben< Yopo: Yes, it is important to know the type of cause of an illness, in order to fit the tool to the task. I had a whole section set up on that subtopic, but will have to let it go for tonight.

Yopo< Ben: Hope you get back to that point later in the series. It is an issue in my own life. Not always sure what comes from the outside, and what comes from the inside.

emeraldlight< Ben: What about Grace? Do you not think that Grace overrides Karma?

Ben< emeraldlight: Yes, Grace can override (and erase) karma.

messenger< emeraldlight: Yes, grace can override any karma.

emeraldlight< Then why not use Grace when healing?

Ben< emeraldlight: Grace is the opposite of wrath. Grace is essential for healing, because it is constructive, whereas wrath is destructive.

messenger< emeraldlight: The enlightened does use grace when healing.

Samanta< How is Grace used, does anyone know?

order< Grace is 'kicked' into action, as: "Forgive us our debts AS we forgive others". Grace is acquired in the act of using it, applying it to our neighbors, just as is LOVE. *S*

messenger< Samanta: Grace is used only by the fully enlightened; it's a silent language that is beyond our understanding.

Samanta< messenger: I see illness as a liberation of the spirit in its not quite real form. Do you understand what I mean? *S*

messenger< Samanta: Only through suffering do we awake from the illusion. Suffering is a spiritual push from god to come home to the reality.

Samanta< messenger: Yes, I suppose it is very true. Why only through suffering? Too much suffering in this world!

messenger< Samanta: Because if everything in this world was perfect and heaven-like, who would want to leave this world and seek god? Only through suffering caused by the continual illusions the world offers do we then think: "This world is an illusion that offers nothing but misery; how do I escape this misery?" Seeking god or the true self or enlightenment is the only way.

Samanta< messenger: I suppose that if this world were perfect and heaven-like, everybody would be God, and we would be busy Creating Splendorous Things in this universe as well as in others. (dreams?) *S*

order< We have nothing of Grace or Love or any other attribute of the One unless we ourselves give it to others.

messenger< order: Give what to others? There are no others; there is only the self, the true self who is everything.

order< messenger: I do not embrace this idea of "only me". *S*

messenger< order: You can't embrace it because you're not fully enlightened. To those souls who are fully enlightened, there is no you or I, guru or disciple; all is the self. To those souls who are enlightened, everything is their body; nothing is not them. You and I are still waves in the ocean; the enlightened are the ocean. We must become the ocean to realize that all is the true self.

order< messenger: You will have to wait for my compliance to this theory until I have reached this state of In-Light-enment, which you tell me I do not have as yet, for in this present state of what I would call In-Light-enment, I cannot agree with you. *hugs*

messenger< order: My friend, opinions will always differ, but the truth stands alone. Your personal experience will give you the truth, friend. Listen to that alone.

order< messenger: I will ... thanks. *VBS*

bluestar< Asking or calling for grace to help you discover and heal something is like asking God for a gift that God is eager to give, provided that your need/intent/desire is true/pure. (i.e., you may really wish to relinquish some addiction you have, but seem not to have the will. Grace can give you the additional strength you need.)

Samanta< Grace is what I call "to be sane in all aspects." Only Real God can do it.

emeraldlight< Grace can be invoked by any one at any time; we are all great and powerful beings; we do not heal anyone but ourselves; we are all one. IMHO

bluestar< Grace certainly can help to heal one's "spirit." I think this is what we call on when we pray for those who have strayed from the "light."

Yopo< bluestar: Uh, I'm sorta outside of the Christian context. What is meant by the term "grace"?

bluestar< Yopo: I am not even sure what the Christian definition for grace is. To me, it is the free-floating, pure energy of God that is not based on "what you deserve."

Yopo< bluestar: I would hope Creator spares me from at least a little of what I deserve. Believe Creator will. So, I ask for and believe in "grace"? *S* It's a little clearer.

[Ben< The word "grace" means: (1) an over-all loveliness of attitude and style; (2) in the sense of doing someone a favor: kindness, good-will, generosity, and giving with no strings attached; (3) in the sense of receiving a favor: thankfulness and gratitude. I believe that all these meanings are characteristic of the grace of God.]

bluestar< Yopo: Were you present at Ben's sessions on reincarnation and karma?

Yopo< bluestar: Yes. I should go back and review those sessions.

bluestar< Yopo: My point being that karma ends when the attitude that causes the karma to come into being ends ... the attitude being an "attraction" (as Ben calls it) to something (or someone). Essentially, we as beings do not change much from one life to another ... we carry ourselves with us, so to speak ... so while looking at a past life might help us see something that close up we are failing to see, it isn't as though we are suffering from something that we no longer have (i.e., the answer/cause is always in the present).

Yopo< bluestar: I remember that part of the long-past session well ... Good to be reminded. Makes more sense now than it did then.

order< bluestar: I agree. *S* Nothing is hiding from us. We just must look and then make the appropriate adjustments within Self.

messenger< bluestar: Karma ends only when you find the object which created the law of karma. That object is god or the true self.

order< messenger: Karma ends, I believe, when we not only find God, but become the pure expression to others of what we have seen in this God. Many find God only to stumble on in this plane, because they have not figured out how to continually express Godliness in this dimension of consciousness. Thus the conflicts within.

Ben< Yopo: In the parable of the prodigal son, when the prodigal came home, his father didn't even ask him what he did in the far country. That is an illustration of grace.

Yopo< Ben: Maybe he didn't ask, but I'll bet he had his suspicions. *LOL* Ah, me ... I don't think I've done too many terrible things in this life, but the trouble is, we don't always really know what we do. I see my "evil" in retrospect. Perhaps it is that way even with the worst among us in this world.

[The following post was apparently in response to a private message by Ragsii]

LEGS< So, Ragsii, that sounds suspiciously like love ... unconditional, agape, love ... what a radical you are! *smiling*

Ragsii< LEGS: Love must be truly felt by the individual expressing it. If you say it, that doesn't make it so. You must feel it inside. Of course that has nothing to do with the topic.

LEGS< Ragsii: Yes *smiling* true.

Ben< Ragsii: Your comment to LEGS about love is right on topic, in my opinion, because lip service doesn't work.

pev< When I learned Reiki, one of the things they talked about was "asking" if the healing you had to offer was appropriate. I ask and most times I get a Yes ... sometimes I get a No. Why? Who knows? My own learning, or what the person requires? But with Reiki, you sort of bear in mind that the healing will go where it needs to go. So, too, I feel is hypnosis the same sort of healing. You start out with one goal in mind: how to get through your father's imminent visit, and find yourself as an infant screaming their head off with somebody hollering in the background "Somebody shut her up!" I just don't think you can predict what is going to happen in a healing, whatever modality you use, though sometimes I think they are all (at least the new age sorts) used in tandem. The person, with what they need, will only be open to a certain amount of healing. You, as the healer, will give your all, but you will also be learning something. It's just a willingness to help, I suppose. Who's to say you can't help heal somebody of cancer or of AIDS, but maybe you can ease their way somewhat.

[Ben< pev: Yes, learning is important. To help another takes both willingness to help and knowing how to help -- that is, both love and truth.]

order< I think it is a little dangerous to hang the title of 'healer' upon ourselves. It has a tendency to puff us up while putting us in a position of seeking out and needing (however secretly) the sickly. Loving and praying with another for any and all reasons does not have the same 'temptation' or effect. (IMHO)

Yopo< order: Ah, yes. I have seen that in some I know locally who identify themselves as healers. Ego is being fed, though they would deny this.

order< Yopo: (sigh) Yes, so have I and do I see it.

Ben< order: Good point about not hanging the title "healer" on ourselves. It's like some people think of themselves as a leader, and some think of themselves as a follower. I prefer the verbs -- I can lead; I can follow, and I can choose to neither lead nor follow.

order< Ben: Yes, this is a good way of looking at this. *S*

Lightdreamer< order: I agree with the "title" thing, too ... "healer", "teacher" "student", etc. We are All One, and we are All ... all of those things in the divine equality of our POTENTIAL. And it's our choice as to what aspects of that potential to manifest, not something that ego should get involved in. The choices are the same for everyone from the first breath drawn in flesh ... infinite creative possibilities.

order< Lightdreamer: Yes, we are all capable of being all things to all people through Love, I believe. *S*

Ragsii< order: I think you have a fine point here. I think we can all become healers (and I'm talking of healing ourselves). It's just a matter of discovering that within us which will allow us to do it. To me, a true healer will show me the way to heal myself. So many "healers" become puffed up with their importance when, if we knew how, we could all do that. In the future, I think we will.

order< Ragsii: I think we will, and can now, learn to heal ourselves, too! *BIG SMILE*

~*M< Ragsii: I agree ... a healer should only be a facilitator helping to open the channels for self-healing.

pev< I met a sister of a friend, a Reiki master. Within 15 minutes of meeting me she said "You need a healing." I lay upon her table. She got as far as my elbow ... my toes began to turn toward each other. It was a really funny feeling. I couldn't see past my belly that mounded up in the way. I wanted to see what was going on. Suddenly, I'm out of my body, looking at my body and my funny-feeling feet. And I'm on a battle-ground mounded with hillocks like a gopher city ... mud everywhere ... a battlefield ... I see my body ... I see myself ... and look from my feet ... up my legs ... to my torso ... to my shoulders ... to where my head ought to be ... 15 feet away to the right I see it ... my head. I screamed louder than I've ever screamed in my life. I raised up off of that table in a VEE ... feet and head up. She said to me "I think we need some creative visualization." Two guides appeared behind me on that battlefield. They helped me to sit up. They reattached my head. In the act of sitting up I noticed that there were a great many other people sitting up at the same time all over the place. I was confused and curious. The guides said to me "You killed a lot of people. You have enough to think about right now. We will speak of this later." I broke away from the imagery and began to laugh and to cry at the same time and found, as I hauled myself off that table, that I could move my arms more easily than I could before that.

[Ben< pev: That was a nice piece of work she did.]

bluestar< re: grace: For instance, Mary visionaries report that the Blessed Lady has said that we are living in a time of "grace." I take this to me that things could be much worse for the world based on its/our karma, but God has granted us this time to make choices. So, in this sense, "Grace" is outstepping "karma."

messenger< bluestar: The sun of grace shines on all, but not all want to bask in the sun. Most cover up and seek the dark shade. To attain god's grace is very easy indeed: simply come out of the dark and shadows.

bluestar< I agree, messenger. Grace permeates the universe, but like the proverbial horse at the well, we must drink of it ourselves.

Ragsii< Damn! (sorry) -- you guys are so good!

pev< All I can do is keep trying. The only validation I get is from another who says thank you, and that hasn't happened yet. I do know the healing works on myself, though. Where before I'd be falling all over myself, sick as a dog ... now? I'm perky at work. I just keep trying to heal others, and when I go to meditate at night, I am thankful that I am reminded by the guides to keep promises I'd made during the course of the day to help in healing for folks. But, to date? Not a one of them has said they have received any relief ... but I just keep trying.

LEGS< ((((((pev))))): Thank you for the help you have given me ... a healing of emotions for sure. ((((hugs)))))

pev< LEGS: Thank you.

Ragsii< pev: What more can we do but to continually try? By trying, we till new ground. From this we learn.

pev< Ragsii: Yes, I know ... but sometimes it's like butting your head up against a wall after awhile. And then somebody like LEGS comes along to make all your efforts worthwhile. If I were doing this for money, would it be different? Who knows? Something to do with your own self-worth (perhaps for another seminar about abundance?). The guides have said to me in the past, "Your prayers are always heard." It's like I devote x amount of energy to my job and x amount of energy to family life, but there is a demand for even more than I devote to other sources to a spiritual growing ... and yet it is all, in another way of thinking, one and the same. It's like I'm on drugs and seeing things through the eyes of somebody in a different reality, and yet I'm not. It's like I can, sometimes, see the humanity in a person convicted of a horrible crime ... and this pulling back and forth hurts, guys ... it hurts ...

Ragsii< pev: Pain often is the greatest teacher of all.

pev< Ragsii: Yes, you have that one right ... pain, as a great teacher.

Ben< ALL: As another illustration of divine grace: if you can take my word for it, I know of demons who have been rescued from the darkness, converted from malevolent to benevolent, and put to work as members (or even leaders) of demon-rescue teams.

order< Ben: I have no response to that ... *smile*

Ragsii< Ben: Your last post just reaffirms my belief that there are no "demons." We are all "nice guys." Sometimes we stray to a different "learning field."

Ben< Ragsii: Oh, they were demons, all right. Malevolent. Sadistic. Destructive. But conversion is more effective and more efficient than expulsion. It is a better way. *smile*

bluestar< I love that example, Ben. I often think that "hell" and stories such as "eternal damnation" were/are stories created by Satan so that people who have come to believe they are "unredeemable" or "evil" will be unable to see a way out.

Ragsii< Ben: Who are we to expel? I think all "demons" since they were created by (?) are good. They just are here to give us certain negative experiences that we may learn from. You know that we learn from both negative and positive and both are important. If not for a demon or two, perhaps we would not learn certain lessons we need.

Ben< Ragsii: Removal of detrimental discarnates is a major subset of healing. I plan to get into that next week.

Yopo< Ben: Hmm ... You mean, by grace, Hey-Presto! and the darkest can come to shine brightly? This puzzles me. Guess my only model is of a slow ascent. Of small victories, one after another, and a new sense of orientation. Oh, there are sudden flashes where maybe I see a bit of glory, but they don't stay. Just encourage with a glimpse of what is far, far ahead ...

Ben< Yopo: Yes, sometimes spiritual change is "Hey-Presto!" -- I have seen it. But much more often it's a process of little steps and little course-corrections. I believe this is what is meant by the word "Way".

Yopo< Ben: That's my model. Each soul a wayfarer, walking a very long path, sometimes through light and sometimes through shadow. Rumor has it there is a splendid place ahead, but I gotta be content with looking at postcards and road signs. *S* It is our time and conduct on the road that makes us worthy of arriving at our destination ...

Ben< ALL: An excellent discussion tonight! My thanks. Now I need some rest. Peace and blessings to each of you. *poof*

Ragsii< Ben: Let me get in line to thank you. Why is it you are not "puffed up" on your own importance? You have the respect of everyone here, yet you continue to keep your focus. Is there a secret to this ability to remain humble?

[Ben< Ragsii: Hmmm ... That isn't an easy question for me to answer, because I don't think of myself as a particularly humble person. However, I believe that rational humility is mostly a matter of inner honesty -- not deceiving oneself, one way or the other. I'm not "puffed up" on my own importance because I have noticed that *wanting to feel important* is a desire that distorts people's lives. I work inwardly to reduce that desire, largely by remembering specific examples of people who were addicted to feeling important.]

13. Spiritual Healing
Session 3: Sat 26 Sep 1998

Ben< ALL: Tonight I'd like to look at spiritual healing by transfer of energy. Like electricity, spiritual energy flows from whatever or whoever has more of it at the moment, to whatever or whoever has less of it at the moment, provided the two are connected by a suitable conductor.

Ben< A channel is like a length of pipe or tubing, open at both ends and closed around the sides: it may also be compared to a length of wire that conducts electrical energy from either end to the other end if the two ends have different potentials (voltage).

Ben< Explanation of terms: I use the word "psychic" in reference to incarnate beings, and "spiritual" in reference to both incarnate and discarnate beings.

Ben< Physical contact can transfer psychic energy from one person to another. A hug can help. Therapeutic Touch has been felt by patients and noted by nurses all over the world. Infants need to be touched and held and loved: they don't flourish without it and sometimes they die for the lack of it.

Ben< ALL: Although this mode of healing is difficult to distinguish from psychosomatic self-healing (which we discussed last time), it occurs to me that you may have some examples in which physical contact was accompanied by a flow of healing energy. YOUR TURN

FRAML< I've experienced that one, several times. Particularly when I really needed it.

kats< I just started in my meditations to ask for healing powers. I found pain within a horse and channeled it a couple of weeks ago. Today, when I found the pain, energy went to the affected area and now she walks much better.

Ben< Here's an example: a woman touched the hem of Jesus' garment, and was healed. It might have been psychosomatic self-healing -- except Jesus felt power (*dunamis*) flow from him. He said to her "Your faith has made you well." Apparently her faith opened a channel, and the energy flowed automatically even though his intent was not focused on her. (Luke 8:43-49)

LightningBug< **curious**

Ben< Any other examples?

kats< Taking on someone's emotional pain.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Abyss: Slider and Flying Wolf both have the ability to heal with touch, though when Flying Wolf does it, she suffers back aches for a few days afterward. They have used this ability on me when I suffer from migraines and have really helped me.

Ben< Abyss: Yes, apparently FlyingWolf sends her own energy, and then feels drained.

shiana< I had a client a couple of months ago who came to me for Reiki as a last resort. She has vertebrae disintegrating from Osteoporosis. Anyway, as soon as I approached and laid hands upon her, she couldn't believe it was my bare hands, and asked what I was using on her (her eyes were covered). From then on she has become a regular client and has found that the Reiki assists her with her Osteoporosis ... from non-believer to believer.

Ben< COMMENT: A psychic connection works like a length of pipe or tubing or wire that can transfer energy from one person to another without physical contact. Such a connection can be created consciously or subconsciously. The next three questions will address some symptoms of direct energy transfer.

Ben< ALL: Many people (especially those in the "caring professions") have felt drained after thinking about someone they were trying to help, without knowing why they felt that way. Some have experienced "burn-out" because they were so thoroughly drained. Do you have an example of this? Have you felt drained? YOUR TURN

kats< Yesterday after experiencing a person under incredible stress, and another experiencing profound sadness.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: I went through about three years of physical therapy after a wreck, and the physical therapist used to explain exactly what your last post talked about.

shiana< Before learning Reiki, I would be drained emotionally, physically and spiritually after a healing because I was not grounded properly and drawing the universal energy ... I was using my own instead.

ELF!< I am a family law attorney, which, believe it or not, is a healing profession. I frequently feel burn-out after dealing with very emotional clients.

5foot2< Everyday occurrences exchange energy -- a laugh, a mother stroking a child's head, even a back-rub. Energy drain I have experienced, sometimes quite intensely, however since the early 90's I find this no longer occurs -- at least not to the same degree.

Ben< Good examples. Others?

ELF!< I don't put my hands on people. I talk them through it.

earthling< Each idea or action is an energy transfer. If we admire the whole of energy, we shall be healed most perfectly. It is when we take for granted some or many or all of these amazing energy systems that our lives become shut from the inner power of creation.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: I hope this doesn't distract from the subject, but I have found some real healing power in magnets, and this may link to being able to draw the right polarity to heal from the universal stream.

Ben< SLIDER: Okay. I plan to look at crystals and magnets and such in another session.

earthling< Mind is the conduit for all energy. What we think will happen is what happens.

kats< I have been sending long distance healing to people. One in particular. I watched angels around him doing the healing.

ELF!< Is there a difference between healing emotional pain vs. physical pain?

greyman< ELF!: Spinal cord.

earthling< Only in the mind's electrical environment of the afflicted and the initiator; either the same or different.

shiana< ELF!: I found that through Reiki there is no difference. Reiki always goes to where it is most needed. A Reiki practitioner does not direct the energy, but is simply the conduit for the energy.

Ben< ALL: Many people have suddenly felt better -- more energy -- without knowing why they felt that way. They may perceive a face smiling at them, and usually but not always it is the face of someone they know. Has this happened to you? YOUR TURN

kats< Yes, in meditations or driving down the road.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: Sometimes I find that just by thinking of someone I feel an energy boost, and at other times I also pick up the opposite from different people. Must be like a telekinetic link to emotions that these people may be feeling.

earthling< Telepathy is used by each living thing, we especially, and as we practice our skills of imaging and faith, our abilities greaten beyond belief.

ELF!< Feeling "better" and "more energy" comes to me when I ask God, my guardian angels, and my guides, to walk with me through the day. This is something that I always do as I am driving to work.

5foot2< Recognizing the irony/humor of a situation always gives me the sensation that "someone" was smiling as I made the connection.

earthling< The whole point is vision. If we vision our lives perfect and without ailment and a wonderful ride of flowing from one thing to another, that, given a plentiful mix of faith, is what happens. It is when we do not have vision for the future, and torment with current situations, and never believe we are infinite beings of magical fire.

[The following apparently was in response to a private message.]

SLIDER/Abyss< blufalcon: Thank you for your comment. Love and emotions seem to play a big part in the healing process, and when you can visualize with your mind's eye the positive and negative polarities while raising vibrations within the subject you're trying to heal, it all just seems to fall in place.

earthling< It matters not what sect or group of belief we are in, for our ultimate faith in whole vision grants us the gifts of creation. It is actually better not to harness your life in a stereotyped organization or belief pattern, but by a pure thought and mind-utilized method of living.

Tigerlily< I often feel, especially in here, that it isn't so much what someone is saying, but the energy behind what they are saying, the intent, that makes a difference. I have often felt healed after communicating with someone; not necessarily related to what we were talking about, just their energy. I think those with less ego, more centered in the God Realm, tend to make me feel real good.

LEGS< I have definitely felt the healing from another when sent via the Internet. A healer called "hands" is quite compassionate and helps many, including my daughter in relieving some of the symptoms of her condition. I also received healing that took effect within 35 to 40 minutes while chatting at SWC when suffering with an almost-migraine and a painful shoulder, elbow, forearm and hand. I don't remember if she called it Reiki or not. It was Brigit who helped me.

Ben< ALL: Have you intentionally sent *your own* energy to help or heal another person, without any physical contact or other communication that might trigger psychosomatic healing? If so, did you feel drained? Did the other person perceive the arrival of your energy? What was the result to the other person? YOUR TURN

earthling< Next: can you feel it coming back again?

[Ben< earthling: Yes, many can feel energy coming into them, but it almost never comes back from the person one is trying to heal. If you feel energy coming into you, that means you have connected to a source of energy.]

kats< I sent bands of love from me and bands of angels to a person this past week. She reported that she felt remarkably better. But the problem is an emotional one and is still going on, so more will be needed.

Ben< kats: Did you feel drained?

kats< Not with that one. But with the two I mentioned earlier (one stressed and the other sad), yes. I had to go back and be quiet with God for awhile to get centered again and recharge.

shiana< I do send distant healing without informing the recipient, although I always ask their higher self if they will accept it, and I find no drain to self. And yes, I have talked to them later and they tell me how much better they are feeling. It was like a warm kiss and suddenly they were feeling better ... at least those that admit to "unusual" incidents; others will just tell me they are suddenly feeling much better. *S*

earthling< All someone has to do is say they do not want me here. I will go. I instill my thoughts to the unwanting never.

[Ben< earthling: Are you here to instill your thoughts in us? Most of us are here to share what we have experienced and learn from each others' experiences.]

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: Yes, I have sent energy to many that haven't known they were on the receiving end. Have received mixed results but mostly positive and it gives me a feeling of inner peace.

FRAML< I guess I was doing a form of energy transfer today at the Red Cross. Talking to folks on the phone, recruiting them to fill positions on hurricane disaster relief teams.

5foot2< I have referred to myself as an energy director. I send/forward energy constantly -- to adjust the energy of another closer towards balance.

earthling< I heal most every second of my life. It's all in the perception that we generate.

Tigerlily< I pray for people, but I wouldn't tend to send healing energy without their permission.

earthling< I feel that we are not at a high success rate when our own lives are not whole to the light.

Tigerlily< earthling: We are all works in progress, though. A compassionate response is always a step in the right direction.

earthling< Where does thought energy come from, the kind that heals, or whatever? It seems to sorta come from nothing. I mean, you know when you make a thought, or create a dream, what has produced that.

shiana< If I am sending without verbal permission, I always ask their higher self if they will accept. If I "hear" a No, then I will not send, for there are times it is not appropriate.

Tigerlily< That's good, shiana. :) My higher self says Yes ... and my lower dickens says Yes, too.

Ben< ALL: Okay. There is a pattern in my line of questions that I'm hoping you will follow. I'm trying to move our consideration of spiritual healing from abstract to concrete, from philosophical to pragmatic.

earthling< How do we heal?

Ben< COMMENT: When the sender's purpose is purely to benefit the recipient, the energy is called "positive" because it helps and can heal the recipient. What the sender does is called remote healing, healing at a distance, the act of blessing, or casting a blessing. But to the degree the sender's purpose includes any personal agenda, it is less helpful and less healing, and more an attempt to manipulate the other person.

greyman< Ben: Very difficult to heal a loved one because of that. Need to continue meditating on the solution.

earthling< So we are "creators"

[Ben< earthling: Yes, we are creators in the sense that each of us can generate and transmit energy, but that isn't all there is to spiritual healing.]

Ben< COMMENT: In this context, prayer can be defined as an attempt to connect to a source of healing energy. This raises the question: To whom or what is this type of prayer directed? If the connection isn't to a source of energy, no energy flows. If the energy isn't positive, the result isn't helpful or healing. However, instead of investigating the many theological implications of these observations tonight, I'll leave that for another seminar and proceed to the next question.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: Excellent comments.

Ben< ALL: Prayer and the laying on of hands may trigger psychosomatic self-healing in the recipient, and/or transfer energy from the healer to the recipient, and/or relay energy from another source through the healer to the recipient. From what we have discussed this far, what do you think might be expectable indications by which we could distinguish between these modes of healing: (1) psychosomatic; (2) direct energy transfer; (3) relay of energy from another source? YOUR TURN

shiana< When I am doing a Reiki treatment, whether a full one or a "quickie", I always feel the transfer of the energy through me. As I heal I am healed. Again, I am simply the conduit and I open myself to the Healing Power of Reiki, the universal life force/source.

SLIDER/Abyss< Ben from Slider: I think that for any healing to be beneficial to the receiver, all three instances you outlined have to be combined, so as not to have a detrimental effect to the sender.

5foot2< Why do we need to distinguish? It's all about energy. I might add: generating negative energy is sort of like mixing poison with no gloves on; you are bound to get some on yourself.

Ben< 5foot2: I believe we need to understand how these things work, as well as we can, so as to fit the tool to the task, and also because this understanding sets a framework for understanding other spiritual dynamics [like negative energy].

5foot2< Ben: I have been coming here over a year and done my best not to come off sounding like a "crazy" -- but that may all go down the tubes now. All my life, I have had truths -- things I just knew -- such as: our concept of time isn't right, energy is all, similarities are more important than differences, and something about magnetic fields that I still haven't figured out, personal responsibility for the energy we generate on a daily basis, and recognize the energy similarities in others. We seem to prefer differences; I truly feel it's time to see similarities ... the word energy can replace so much -- i.e., God, the original energy.

[Ben< 5foot2: Yes, I believe that learning more about energy of all types and the similarities in how energies work can be a key to much greater understanding.]

kats< Direct energy transfer will drain. Relay of energy from another source will keep a continuous flow. Psychosomatic? Not sure. Although I found that when I send bands of Love Light to encircle the person, I am not drained. In laying on of hands, energy is built up and then distributed, no drain.

[Ben< kats: Good point. If energy is built up first and then distributed, distribution does not leave the healer drained dry even though it does drain a lot of the built-up energy, as Jesus felt when the woman touched the hem of his garment.]

earthling< We should gain energy from healing another. It is all thought, so we should bask in the glow of love we have allowed our minds to project.

Yopo< Hmm ... Maybe direct energy transfer would leave the healer with "low batteries". In relaying, the healer might somehow feel an energy flow with no subsequent sense of diminished personal levels. Don't know what psychosomatic healing would "feel like" to the healer.

Ben< Yopo: If the person self-heals psychosomatically, the healer feels no energy flow at all.

bluestar< Psychosomatic healing might be considered activation or inspiration for activation of a person's own healing energy activating mechanisms.

earthling< bluestar is so far closest. I see this large energy source over and in our heads, and when we allow what is in our heads to project the ability to another, then that is healing, merely allowing