FRAML: Good evening Ladies ((((((LADY V & CELTIC FIRE))))))

LadyV: Hello FRAML I did not see plans posted. What is the news?

FRAML: /topic Ben's Seminar: ????

LadyV: CelticFire thats good news. A new bride always has a few concerns that the Dr. needs to address. Best to consult with her when you can.

CelticFire: LadyV -- I will -- *sigh* -- this has not been my week -- I had a weird mood swing yesterday -- actually, several -- just like when before I have my cycle -- all rolled into one day -- from weepy to irritated to nasty and back again ... geez ...

FRAML: I haven't thought of anything. I've spent the week either tired from therapy or working on getting for our church's turn at hosting 25 homeless people for a week that starts tomorrow. Seminar topic was not on my priority list.

LadyV: CelticFire thats the bride thingy again ... and being female ... and its the full moon. [grinning] I think the darn thing is full.

CelticFire: LadyV -- yes, he is -- he's working full time now, off every Wednesday and Sunday, works half a day Saturdays ... *S* ...

LadyV: FRAML that is understandable hosting homeless people is gift enough to the Universe for the week.

LadyV: CelticFire I am glad that he is working ... very glad.

LadyV: Hi gabriella ... welcome

FRAML: I doubt that I'll be here next Saturday. It will be our last night for hosting them. I'm staying at the church on Friday night as the church rep. I also know that Ben has plans for this weekend that will keep him off line next Saturday.

LadyV: I was thinking today that the after-season let down of all the excitement has worn us all out.

LadyV: FRAML nice to be needed eh? [smiling]

FRAML: Hello gabriella

CelticFire: *pouts* -- but I HATE a rollercoaster day like that!!! Of course the moon would have to be full in the middle of everything else ... actually, the mood swing thing may be part of bride thingy ... *giggle* ... that just sounds odd ... *G* ... but I've also been having some of the areas that I've been working out in myself that I had to let go at times becuase I had went as far as I could with them and had to work on something else -- well, I think they've ganged up on me -- *lol* -- that, and seeing the movie The Last Days this past Wednesday just hit too close to home, too -- good movie, but it gave me nightmares ...

CelticFire: {{{gabriella}}},{{{FRAML}}} -- *S* -- it's okay that there isn't a seminar tonight -- you've been busy ...

LadyV: CelticFire yep ... they have ganged up on yhou ... all those darn feelings ... a girl does not have a chance ... better to go quietly to the fluffy pillows and look beautiful ... and rest ... if one is allowed to do that. I know that sounds odd too ... but it works on really bad days.

CelticFire : *settles underneath a tropical, broadleaved plant* nice here ...

LadyV: CelticFire there you go ... [grinning]

FRAML : Lady V--H'mm it would be nice to be kneaded, especially my back and shoulders. *G*

CelticFire: LadyV ... *S* ... 'Wolf took pity on me and took me out to dinner last night ... *WEG* ... no, BAD thought ... not a good idea to fake having a bad day just to get dinner ... *lol*

Sun, 27-Jan-2002 03:01:00 GMT
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LadyV: Today I passed a cemetary near my home and I saw a young man on his knees before a new grave. He had his hands raised to heaven in a fashion that only the very deep wound of the heart would cause ... and I nearly ran off the road weeping for him. He looked so alone there ... and I knew that he was not really alone. It was his struggle that united my heart with his spirit. It was so very touching. All I could do was pray ... and that I did.

FRAML: I may not stay late on Saturday, the youth group is fixing supper, so I'll come home with my daughter after they've cleaned everything up. The youth group sponsors are staying the night and they have been through as many of these as I have. However, I'll have to get to the church early on Sunday morning to get the cots, blankets and linens packed up and putting the Sunday School rooms back together before church starts.

LadyV: FRAML do tell? [grinning] you are feeling better to tease me. I know you FRAML.

LadyV: Celtic He loves you. I am glad for you.

CelticFire: I've also had whatever this nasty sinus crap is that's been going around -- and been taking Sudafed 12 hour to take care of the drainage and the coughing -- I was coughing so bad before I got the Sudafed, I spent parts of a couple of nights sleeping sitting up -- I called the doc and told her my symptoms -- she told me NOT to come see her -- that I'd just get something worse in her office, probably -- she told me the Sudafed was the best thing she could recommend for me ...

LadyV : FRAML is there a long-range plan to help these homeless? I ask as Prair [nick] works with the homeless. She has some good programs. I really admire Prair

donoma: hello dears *S*

FRAML : Lady V--I was serious about desiring a good back massage. /// CelticFire--YUCK!!! Been there.

LadyV: CelticFire the Dr. is one smart lady.

FRAML: ((((DONOMA)))) Good evening.

LadyV: donoma Hello ... How are you?

LadyV: FRAML ok ... [smiling]

LadyV: The earth is waking up!! I noticed today that new shoots are on the Roses ... in this area we only have a few weeks of rapid growth. I have to get the seeds in the ground and fast!!

FRAML: LadyV--some of the people have jobs and are in the program to save money for their rent deposit. Others are generally newly homeless and trying to get oriented. These are not the stereotypical folks lying on the streets that the tv news shows.

LadyV: He Skycatcher ... How are you?

donoma: ((framl))) hello dear *S* (((ladyv))) i am ok dear *S* and ((celtic fire)) sorry about your cold. the docs really giving much less antibiotics these days its amazing. before, they always would write a script for one.

FRAML: I hope no new shoots here. It is suppose to be up to 64 then next couple of days. We still have more winter to go, and should have some more snow.

LadyV: FRAML yes ... I know what you are saying. Many of them have children as well.

FRAML: Hello Skycatcher.

FRAML: /topic Ben's Seminar: Life this week and preparing for what comes next.

CelticFire : Yes, he does, and for that, I am more than thankful -- he hates leaving me in the morning, he can't wait to get home to me at night -- and since our time is even more limited now, it's very important to him that we spend as much time together as we can, without interruptions -- so he unplugs the phone ... *EG* ... he has been dealing with some frustrations lately -- those taht he put on the back burner because he was so focused on getting a good, full time job -- and now he's been ganged up on, too -- he's trying to get things figured out -- so he told me to do what I needed to do on-line for a few hours -- he was going to go into his room, and try to relax ... *S*

donoma: ((framl)) bless you for doing that work.

FRAML: (((((GUITARIST)))))

Skycatcher: (brushing the dust of the 'Henge off ... ) Hi ALL. Is there a seminar tonite or do we just entertain ourselves? BTW Celtic Fire - I had that crud, and ended up with chest e-rays and antibiotics - nasty stuff - and it took over a month to get rid of it.

LadyV: FRAML I think we are done with it. The weather report said an Arctic front might come through ... but that would be rare ... did happen one year and it was ice for 3 days ... Mother Nature can get cranky. I would like to see the Cherry Blossoms again in Washington it has been awhile. They are beautiful!!

CelticFire: {{{domoma}}},{{{skycatcher}}}

FRAML: ALL: I just got the idea that the newly posted topic is where to focus. We've been talking about it already. I think that it will give us some focus.

donoma: hello guitarist *S* // ((skycatcher)) i know what you mean about the henge. i'm still brushing

Skycatcher: Sounds like lots of folks need massages tonite. I'm a certified MTh, and I know you'd all feel better if you could get them, especially CFs Other - sounds like he could really use some extra TLC.

LadyV: CelticFire he unplugs the phone!! Good for him ... I do that too. Privacy counts ... he will be fine.

LadyV: Hello Guitarist ... welcome back.

CelticFire : {{{guitarist}}} ... donoma -- I just had my winter bout with bronchitis last month -- and the doc put me on Biacin -- she was reluctant to give me another antibiotic on the heels of that one -- *S* -- man, I wish we lived in Texas ... *sigh* ... he keeps saying taht we're going to eventually move out and buy someplace around here -- but I don't know -- I think living someplace warm would do me better than here ...

LadyV: Skycatcher thats neat ... did you have to study a long time to be a certified MTh? I don't know anything about your field.

alremkin: Hi all.

FRAML: CelticFire: yes, a good time for him to unwind.

LadyV: CelticFire you can bet on him returning to Texas. The location you told me about you will enjoy very much. I hope you enjoy swimming and fishing ... and Art and all those fun things ... once your blood gets warm ... and it will in south Texas.

Skycatcher: Life next week ... I've got to spend the whole week in class - learning a network management system for an asynchronous transmission mode network. Sound like fun???? I'm also a healing student, and I find so much similarity between the science of my day job and the science of energy in healing. It's such synchronicity being in both fields at the same time.

LadyV: Hi alremkin

guitarist : (((Hi there all y'all! I'm so glad to see you ... )))

CelticFire: Okay, it seems that most everyone I've talked to this week here has been ganged up on in one way or another -- we all know that this too shall pass -- right? ... *looks hopeful*

FRAML: QUESTION: How do you lay aside the residue of this week?

LadyV: Skycatcher that is really interesting ... could you break down what asynchronous transmission mode network is ... wow!! [grinning] had to type careful to spell it right ... think I did.

Skycatcher: There's two levels for massage training - one is 120 hours, usually takes a few days or nights a week for a few months. Then you're a massage technician. It takes 500 hours of study to be a massage therapist. You can work anyplace with the 120 hr certification, the rest is just fascination with the field. I did it 1) to reward myself when I quit smoking, and 2) it gives me a "legitimate" reason for putting my hands on folks for healing work.

guitarist: Has anyone seen selki? I wonder how she's doing.

donoma : celtic fire i think this was one really really doozie of a week. for everyone. i'm sure it will pass *S* hope springs eternal

yankl: (((Greetings, ALL)))

donoma: guitarist selki was just in the henge in fact. she is doing ok

guitarist: Selki was pretty sick a couple of weeks ago.

spiritcat: namaste all

LadyV : ... good question. I try to change the focus. I ground ... literally, work in the earth. Get down to what is simple and not so much mental and emotional when I can ... I don't always manage it.

CelticFire: LadyV -- you bet he unplugs the phone!! -- and I figure that when the time comes, I won't have too much trouble getting him home to Texas ...

alremkin: I've been recovering from a hernia operation for the last 1/12 months and have booked another 2 weeks holiday. I'm mostly resting collecting my thoughts as I'm planning to write a small 30 or 40 page booklet describing my epistemology.

donoma : Framl - do you mean ANY week, or this week in particular?

yankl: That's always hard for me. Especially bringing my work home.

Skycatcher: I work for a global data communication company. For example, a bank in Brussels wants to send data to their branch office in Singapore. The ATM network (not to be confused with money machines) is the cable network we sent the data signals on. The "network management system" is how we monitor the system and make sure it's healthy, responding to and fixing dis-eases on the system. It's really amazing how the data impulses mimic energy impulses in our own bodies, and how there are congestion problems etc, just like the human body. My tech manuals, with the change of just a few words, read like esoteric anatomy. To me it proves the metaphysical saying "As Above, so below."

Skycatcher : Selki is in the 'Henge tonite. I'm sure you could pm her.

FRAML: donoma: Any week will do if you wish. We had begun with talking about this week, before I got the idea for the topic.

MysticalOne: Peace and blessings to all ...

CelticFire: good question -- hmm -- a massage sounds a good palce to start -- maybe a good soak in a hot tub with apple cider vinegar to remove the lactic acids from the stress this week has brought -- some centering in my meditation area -- *S* --

LadyV: Skycatcher did not know it took 500 hours of study. I saw on PBS Television Documentary about the benefits of massage on those with terminal illness. It does prolong life ... and it is comfort. You are providing a much needed service to others good for you!!

Skycatcher: What is "epistemology"?

CelticFire: or, maybe just a good, hot shower and loving time with my mate -- who has come back in, in a better mood ...

LadyV: Hello MysticalOne welcome to our seminar. We are just deciding on a topic ...

spiritcat : i try to work through my dreams as they happen ... this is not always possible ... sometimes things carry over into the next week ... *S*

Skycatcher: Lady V - anyone can be a massage technician with only 120. In fact most never get the 500 hour certification.

guitarist: Sounds interesting, Skycatcher. // I just tried pm'ing Selki; if she's here, I'll probably hear from her. Thanks, donoma and FRAML.

donoma: FRAML - just the business of life gets my mind in a new mode. or a good workout. or at worst (or best) a good stiff drink *S* but if there is an unresolved problem, my mind will indeed work it over the weekend, the Monday i'm off and running to resolve it. hopefully *S*

MysticalOne: Hi Lady V ... im sure it will be good ...

alremkin: Q#1: I don't think one can lay aside the residue of one's actions; there's a karmic cling.

LadyV: Skycatcher thats amazing ... did not know that data impuleses mimic energy impulses in our own body ... you got a good topic there ... Ben would have some input on that one ...

CelticFire: in any case, maybe some get out of your own way time -- go to the river, or a park, or a lake -- or someplace peaceful -- and fahgetabowtit for awhile ...

Skycatcher: Celtic Fire - massage isn't good when you've been down with a bug. The only kind I could recommend would be lymphatic massage, a method that assists the lymphatic system to cleanse the toxins. When your ill, the lymphatic system is already over-burdened, and massage can just dump more toxins onto the system, making you feel worse.

spiritcat: mostly i can detach myself from the happenings of last week ... to begin afresh the new week *S*

LadyV: alremkin I echo Skycatcher what is "epistemology"

guitarist : (((donoma))) A good workout always helps. Sometimes, even prayer helps.

LadyV : CelticFire change the scene then ... to something restful ... thats a good idea.

Skycatcher : I think Ben was in on a day's chat with Elevaphoenix, when I was typing up parts of my tech manuals, and comparing them. EP and I were talking about doing a 3D class, but I didn't want to put the energy into it at the time.

LadyV: HI spiritcat ...

spiritcat: *LadyV*

LadyV: Skycatcher ok ... when you find time would you consider it? I would like to learn more about your thoughts.

alremkin : Epistemology is a branch of philosophy that investigates the origins of human understanding.

LadyV: NysticalOne How do you relax? If I may ask?

CelticFire: alremkin -- no, but you can change the 'cling' into a psitive form ... get out and just have some fun -- pick whatever you like to do ... *S* ... and DON'T feel guilty for taking time away from the stresses and burdens in your life!! A little downtime from them does NOT mean that you're irresponsible!!!

LadyV: Hi Yankl

spiritcat: wow alremkin ... deeep stuff *S*

Skycatcher: That's one of the reasons you drink plenty of fluids when you have a bug, to help the lymphatic system (and others of course) flush the toxins. When I was in class, we actually learned to "measure" the purity of the lymphatic fluid by touch to test the health of the system. It should "feel" like light virgin olive oil under the pressure of your fingers, but most folks have "mayonaise".

LadyV: My spelling is off ... sorry ...

donoma: guitarist - "prayer" at least in my own definition doesn't seem to help me. but if i can settle down enough to meditate, of find the "connection" with all that is then yes that helps alot. because then problems become so small and maybe even humerous *S*

Skycatcher: LOL - I just got out of the 'Henge. Isn't "human understanding" an oxymoron?????? LOL Just teasing!

LadyV: alremkin could you give us a thumbnail sketch of the origins of human understanding? Where did human understanding begin?

CelticFire: Skycatcher -- oh, i didn't know that -- thanks for telling me -- so I guess it's a hot shower -- which I think I'm going to do -- sounds good to me right now ... love light and laughter to everyone ... love you all!!! {{{{HUGE DRAGON HUGS}}} ... *POOFERS*

FRAML : alremkin: It would seem to me that you would be setting yourself us to constantly "stew" about everything.

MysticalOne: Lady V i relax by meditation ... loosing the I,in old manuscripts,or by working on a person energeticly,and creating sacred space in a session ...

spiritcat: yes donoma meditation with gentle music is a good relaxant ... but not always possible

FRAML: Good night CelticFire.

Skycatcher: Prayer is a mystery to me. I don't understand it at all.

LadyV : MysticalOne You use energy transfer with your mind ... with the one you are working with. Do you also use the same techniques as Skycatcher?

alremkin : CF:I didn't mean to imply that the "cling" is negative. I agree with your statement about "downtime"

spiritcat: sometimes the good long shower and washing all the dregs away down the drain is a good way too

LadyV: FRAML oh, but what a 'stew' that would be ... how could that be resolved ... you would have years to attempt to resolve it I would imagine ...

FRAML: I have found that I can relax quite nicely during my pool therapy. The water is 94 degrees. Even though I'm exercising my hip and legs, I relax all my muscles and let the bouyance of the water hold me.

spiritcat: consciously washing the dregs away *S*

LadyV: spiritcat water does help ... that is why I go to the water ... that I understand.

spiritcat: sounds lovely FRAML *S*

guitarist: Especially when I'm busy, I tend to push myself a lot ... then I get a headache or even a mild migraine ... and then I can allow myself to disappear into a dark, quiet room. :)

MysticalOne: Lady V i am not familiar with the techniques of Skycatcher ... what i do really is to open up vessels so that a higher form of light can enter and illuminate the situation allowing healing to take place ...

spiritcat: yes LadyV water is a necessary element in my life too *S*

alremkin: FRAML: I feel the need to express myself more and writting the pamphlet will go along way toward that. LadyV: I don't know that this will help, but it starts within us as we see our relationship to everything.

FRAML: Skycatcher: for me prayer is talking with my boss focusing on Him as a mentor rather as a stern person that is often given as the image of God. And it is quieting myself and listening for reply/being open for inspiration.

LadyV: Skycatcher talking to the Universe is like talking with friends ... only its the silence that does not speak back at first ... then one day inside your mind there comes this 'inner knowing' that someone is listening. Its the darnest thing. If you sit quietly for one hour daily and listen ... soon the silence is so loud you have to get a word in edgewise.

spiritcat: guitarist i too seek the dark quiet room when i have a headache ... i wonder what it is about the dark room that helps relieve the headache?

Skycatcher: LOL Skycatcher does not havd *A* technique. I've studied so many that I am not true or pure to any one of them. But MysticalOne is doing a great job of describing what is basically hard to describe. We all use different words for the experience of healing.

LadyV: MysticalOne Vessels as in the person or persons that you are helping? That is a sense of cooperation between the three of you ... you are the mediator of the energy ... ? The third person for want of a better word is the light? The language we work on ... or I do so that I might understand. Please to be patient.[smiling]

LadyV: Hello one-of-four ...

MysticalOne: thankyou Skycatcher ...

guitarist : Maybe you get migraines, too, spiritcat. The senses get overly sensitive when migraines strike.

LadyV : FRAML good way to express prayer ... quieting self ... so that one can listen.

Skycatcher: I do better with the concept of meditation. To me, prayer is like asking someone for something ... sort of a childish approach to a daddy godhead, and in extreme circumstances, bargaining ... "I'll be good if You only ... " I'm very disconnected to all of that, and so find it very difficult to "pray".

one-of-four: Hi LadyV

FRAML: Skycatcher: There is a good description of prayer and focusing one's self for it on Ben's site. http://bswett.com/spirit.html Give me a couple of minutes and I'll find the titles for the two papers he wrote on it.

alremkin: spiritcat: I had a flash about your headaches: You're over burdened with input and seek a quiet dark place to calm yourslef.

spiritcat: guitarist i have had very few migraines ... or so i think ... i have a fairly high pain threshold so i refer to them as headaches ... i have seen others with migraines and they are far worse off than myself ... i suppose it is a matter of perception once again *S*

LadyV: Skycatcher meditation is another word for prayer ... we all use language that is familiar to us. In the end the same thing ... going outside of self to recognize the Universal All ... we really are only one ... just one ...

guitarist: So am I, Skycatcher. But that's not how I see prayer, now that I am grown. :)

FRAML: Skycatcher: that is same obstacle I had to overcome, that prayer was as you defined it.

MysticalOne : Lady V there is a Divine Will that all be healed ... purpose for creation is to make a dwelling place for soul in this,the lowest of all worlds ... the world of action.So there are spiritual beings that help connect to the higher soul ... the vessel being the recepient of the light ... the healer facilitates the connection ...

one-of-four : Skycatcher one does not have to ask for anything in a prayer

guitarist: spiritcat, my mother used to have migraines, so I know something about them. Mine have never gotten beyond the need for quiet and dark; yes, you're right, they can get very much worse.

spiritcat: thank you alremkin ... i do find overburdening of the senses happens more often since i became awake or aware ... i have a tendency to prefer my own space/company or music with no words too ... i feel very self centred sometimes ... hoping that it is not selfish and nasty towards others ... *S*

Skycatcher: I see healing as moving energy. Sometimes that happens in meditative states, and sometimes in hands on experiences. For both, the first act is to center youself and access sacred space. This does not need to be a big fancy thing, but can be as simple as drawing a breath. One time I was on a jet at 35000 feet, and the attendant sat next to me a man who thought he was having a heart attack. Not a lot of time to prepare for that one! I drew a deep centering breath, took hold of his hand and began running calming energy from me to him, and asked my Spirit Gang ( who know far more than I) to take from me whatever was needed and help him with it. We landed and he was taken away for medical help. My sense was that he was having an extreme anxiety attack, but I am not a doctor, and would not presume to diagnose. That was just my private thought.

LadyV: MysticalONe thank you. Do you in your Jewish Path speak of the spiritual beings as angels? I do not know.

one-of-four: one can thank for what they have.

FRAML: Skycatcher: the two papers are: "A Small Explanation" and "Prayer as a Form of Two-Way Communication."

LadyV: Skycatcher good for you?

guitarist: (((Ben)))

FRAML: "They ask concerning how to establish real two-way prayer." There are ever the same steps, but they take many forms. Climb the steps, play among the forms. 1. The first step is to stop! This is to stop other things, to go apart, to quiet the mind and heart and body. For this men have built churches, and sanctuaries, and cathedrals, so they may go apart into a quiet place, away from the whirlpool of daily concerns. Some build the cathedral within, some seek it without. And so with this little cell of light: a place apart. Do not clutter it with rules. Do not set times and sequences. Only come together away, and lay aside the world. Lay aside the dreary load, the fear, the trouble. For the moment, stop all these, and rest. There is reason for this. One cannot pursue two ways at once. So stop pursuing all but the one. This in itself will set a stage of holiness, for peace is of God. Relax, and only dwell on peace and peaceful things. Do not push or strive or concentrate. Take off shoes. Sit where and how you please. Be in comfort of body, heart and mind. This is necessary.

MysticalOne: Lady V yes we do ... there are many types ... and remember there jobs are in some way however great or lesser ... to channel,constrict Divine Light to us so that we can connect to it ... or we would be nullified by it ... like the rays of the sun,if we got to close ... so to speak ...

yankl: ((((Greyman & Ben))))

FRAML: 2. The second step is to open. To open is to become receptive, as to open the mind, the heart. The open mind is one that asks dear questions, that seeks and knocks, that finds and grows. The open mind is like that of a little child. It learns, it grows, it develops, because it knows only that it does not know and that it can learn. The closed mind believes it already knows, or that it cannot learn. It does not ask, seek, knock--or grow. So do not set assumption--a summing up and closing--as a barrier across the Way. Let not a subject be closed. Let none be forbidden. Let no one become a stubborn resistance to the cleansing, the growth of minds. The open heart is one which dares--dares to see beauty, and ugliness: to feel joy, and pain, to expose the deep, dark spots in self. The closed heart dies. It cannot help or heal another, or itself. It is closed to help from we who care. So dare to care, to feel, to love, to be healed. It is truly said: the key is inside. The key is courage. When one can open the deep dark spots to oneself and to another, he can open them to God. Then healing may reach them. As the open mind is necessary for growth, so the open heart is life.

LadyV: MysticalOne [smiling] thank you.

Skycatcher: When I'm doing distant work, I center, find the sacred space, mentally/spiritually reach out to the unique energy signature that is that person. That connection is made spiritually and at a very high level. I commune with this "higher self" of that person for a bit, getting permission, harvesting info and impressions, poking and prodding a bit to see what approach will be best, and then do what ever work is suggested by the gathered Spirits.

Ben: Hello! Greetings and salutations, :)

FRAML: Skycatcher: those are the 1st 2 paragraphs from "A Small Explanation." I found it as a key for opening me up for prayer.

FRAML: (((((((Ben & greyman)))))))

FRAML: Ben & greyman: I had asked: What do you do to shed the residue of the week. We are still on it.

greyman: {{{{yankl FRAML}}}}

ThomasforE: hello ...

Skycatcher: FRAML Thanks, I noted the site and will check it out when I'm at the office and can print each essay for quiet purusal at home. I don't know Ben. I hope his site is spiritual rather than overtly religious. I've been bashed by fundamentalists, and close up tighter than a clam around overt preaching. It's such a knee-jerk reation now. I don't like it, but there it is.

FRAML: Skycatcher: Ben is here now. Ask him. I can assure you that he is not a 'fundamentalist.'

yankl: Working for a radio station that plays rock/pop/folk music, I like to close my door and listen to a good violin concerto or the like, just like I'm doing right now! It's quite soothing to my soul.

alremkin: <---------Non bashing fundamentalist.

Ben: Skycatcher, hello! Yes, I can assure you I'm not a fundamentalist. More of a general all-purpose heretic. But I know you will decide that for yourself.

Skycatcher: "gimmee god prayers" - I feel so blessed with so much abundance in my life. There are things I'd like to have, want, but they are so minor, so unimportant beside the blessings I have, that I feel selfish and petty "praying" for anything for myself. There are so many more needful folks in this world. But there I feel so detached that praying for them seems ... off, somehow. Pryaing for "world peace" is almost cliche, like I'm running for Miss America or something. It's so puzzling to me.

Sun, 27-Jan-2002 04:00:03 GMT
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guitarist: I can hear yankl's violin concerto! I'm in the next room.

LadyV: Hello Thomas ... welcome

alremkin: yankl: I'm listening to Ecstatic Communion by Paul Armitage and Lauren Pomerantz and it's fitting.

Skycatcher: When I come close to what might praying, I'm just at peace and merging, finding Oneness. But there's no agenda, or script, just Oneness. Is that praying? or meditating?

greyman: guitarist, what frequency?

alremkin : Skycatcher: When we are in tune our lives are living prayers.

Skycatcher: I'mlooking forward to reading about the thoughts of this "general all-purpose heretic". When I was into CB radio my "handle" was "Happy Heathen". I've read the sacred books of several traditions, and see good in all of them. But it seems that their most devout adherants are all foaming at the mouth, often contrary to the loving messages of the founding teachers of these traditions.

yankl: Greyman, sorry, we're on a private channel!

MysticalOne: Skycatcher ... mindful prayer is like opening up a channel to the higher worlds ... and being receptive and asking for guidance as needed ... its the communication and connection to that dimension ... its is only in this world that we can have a conversation that GOD/dess exists ...

FRAML: Skycatcher: I've learned how to focus on others and ask God how we (Him and I) can help them. It is interesting that sometimes the help is as simple of getting a thought to say that ends up being an answer to a question they were silently struggling with.

guitarist: I'm Jewish myself, Skycatcher. And so is Yankl.

Skycatcher : alremkin - that sounds like Yogananda Paramahansa kind of thinging. His "take" on it is that when we are "in tune" our lives are constant songs of the greatness of the Creator. I love reading his works.

one-of-four : prayer is more focused to a specifc where meditation steps back to the general out to oneness. Contemplation is the quieting towards stillness. Trance is altered state

greyman: yankl, Just checking to see if I need to break out my Professor Peter Shickolee tapes *G*.

LadyV : MysticalOne has this way of speaking like the Sage ... you feel the walls will echo ... well said MysticalOne ...

FRAML: yankl: send that channel to officer school and make it a general.

Ben: Skycatcher, being at peace within, stilling the inner noise, is needed for meditation and prayer.

greyman: Good night dear ones.~~

one-of-four: night greyman

yankl: FRAML, when I was in the service, I served under Genral Confusion!

alremkin: Skycatcher: Interesting, I know nothing of that group although I saw an advertisement for a mediation group they have that I'm considering attending.

Skycatcher: I think, reading what MO and F have written, is that my struggle is a childhood one, of the seperateness of God and Humankind, that one must pray and One must be Prayed to. I vaguely remember Sunday School experiences and realize that never, ever, was God something I was allowed to BE with, but always something "other", and usually harsher, to be feared. The God I know now is in my heart, and surrounds me with loving. I KNOW this God. I don't need to "pray" because this Presence is within me, all around me, and there is none of the seperateness that (in my childhood ways) would require the communication of prayer. I think I've just had a little epiphany here! Thanks Guys.

LadyV : night greyman ... peace to you and your own ... [smiling]

FRAML: Good night Greyman. Remember to count your blessings before you sleep.

Skycatcher : Whoops, that should have been Paramahansa Yogananda - doh! But his writings are about loving God with all your heart, and I feel an echo of personal experience through his words. I have his Self-Realization Lake Shrine near my home in Los Angeles, and I love to go there and mediatate.

spiritcat: peace and blessings greyman

yankl: Greyman, buenos nachos!

alremkin: mesg/ stands_Alone: Hi

guitarist: Goodnight, greyman ... blessings!

MysticalOne: Peace to you Skycatcher ... i honour that you feel The Presence in your heart ... and to release the chains from our heart is great work ... but we also have to take the veil from our eyes ... and through seeing know God with our mind ...

spiritcat: peace and blessings to you all =^ ... ^= bye and thanks for the insights

one-of-four: A good prayer for me maybe God help me shut up so I can listen

Yopo: G'd evening, ALL. *S* Guess I'm about as late as I could be ...

guitarist : Skycatcher -- I have the same problem with meditation that you have with prayer. Interesting.

FRAML: Good night spiritcat.

FRAML: ((((((YOPO)))))) Good evening.

guitarist: Bye, spiritcat ... blessings to you!

FRAML: YOPO: I had only one question tonight: How do you shed the residue of the week you have just finished?

Yopo: *S* Hi FRAML. Just walked in the door from drumming circle. It ran later than expected.

Skycatcher: Ok MO - now I feel a little preached at ... and I say this gently. When someone says "but we also have to ... ", my defenses come up, because to me it implies that what I am, what I'm doing is somehow not enough, but now I "have to ... ". I'm sure you mean your words gently enough, but that phrasiology just triggered my defenses.

Yopo: FRAML AH! *G* I guess I just gave my answer before I saw your question. This time, drumming circle worked very well indeed! A very powerful session. I left feeling much better than I arrived.

guitarist: (((Yopo)))

Skycatcher: BTW MO - *S* I in no way hold you responsible for my defenses!

Yopo: Hello guitarist! *S* LadyV, Ben *S*

LadyV: Skycatcher you have this honesty about you that is refreshing and tender ... more so for the simplicity of your warmth that is so nice to share in chat. You are so welcome with us ... the answers are in your heart ... and for you alone. Each of us struggles as you do ... to understand. In this you are alone.

one-of-four: I feel myself drifting off here. I think I will drift with this sensation. Bye

MysticalOne: peace to you Skycatcher ... we all have our work to do ... the ceiling of one level is only the floor of the next ... and it never stops ... its not preaching.as you use this term ... we all need each other as we journey through this space ... and some have this talent or older souls ect ... and we can learn from all of others experiences ... so we can watch the road map and know where the signs are ... or we can go it alone ...

LadyV: Hi Yopo ... all I missed.

guitarist : No, Skycatcher -- you may not hold people responsible for your defenses, but my innocent mention of the word "prayer" started this part of the conversation. I feel really stupid for having said it ... but then again, I feel rather uncomfortable with meditation, as I understand it, as opposed to prayer.

yankl: Skycatcher - in their zealousness, people often think that what works for them MUST be what everyone else needs. But that's almost never the case. We must each find our own way.

Ben: Yopo, Good to see you. I'm glad your drumming circle went well.

Kotoki : Hi all ... ((guitarist/yankl)) LadyV, FRAML, Yopo, Skycatcher, all ... *S* Just passing through.

FRAML: guitarist: We have seen a good discussion that is related to my question. And we have seen examples of people understanding that something they perceived as offensive was not necessarily meant that way. All have acted with graciousness.

guitarist: Hi, (((Kotoki)))

LadyV: Hello Kotoki ... welcome [smiling] How is your world?

Skycatcher : I like that we can all be together, very different each in our own way, yet so much the same in our Journeys. Each of us, on our Path, holds our Lamp high so those ahead know they are not alone, and those behind also know. Each Journey is different, but our combined Glow lights up untold Universes.

FRAML: Good night one-of-four/// KOTOKI, Hi & Bye.

MysticalOne: Skycatcher ... are you preaching? ... smiling to hear the truth ...

Ben: FRAML, Well said. // Skycatcher, Well said. Thanks to both or you.

alremkin: About meditation and prayer, I now only prayer when I'm in meditation and the energy is flowing. Then I focus my intention on what it is I seek to pray about and ask that Divine will be done rather than ask for specific actions.

guitarist: I certainly didn't mean to make you (or anyone else) feel uncomfortable, Skycatcher.

Skycatcher: guitarist - you feel stupid for saying it? Never so! If you had not said it, I might not have had the courage (from the French "cour" for heart) to admit my own discomfort. And I've found some very interesting personal insights from this conversation. I hope you would not take that away from me, by denying your own very important opening of that doorway for me?

guitarist: (((thank you, FRAML)))

LadyV: Hello Cuan ...

alremkin: skycatcher: The only thing I would add to your last staement is that it's almost impossible for us to know for certain who is ahead or behind on the path." There are many who are first who will be last and those who are last who will be first."

FRAML : My friends, I can hear the bells of St. Sealy's pealing in the distance. It is time for me to depart. Thank you all for coming tonight and participating in this impromtu seminar.

Stands_Alone: Hi alremken nice to meet again

Skycatcher: LOL - again with the semantics MO! That's not preaching to me. I'm not saying what others should do - that's my definition of the word. But again, that's only in my little corner of reality. And thank you for not taking offense at my saying "ouch".

Yopo : Ben ... I'm not sure what it is that is actually happening during an "effective" drumming circle. Externally, one circle is pretty much the same as another. Whatever it is that happens that makes a particular session unusually strong and effective is internal. Something happening on a spiritual level. It a group rather than an individual phenomenon. There were 10 tonight. All were in complete agreement that the session was extraordinary. My own personal experiences were much the same as the others', when we started comparing notes: prolonged intervals where the mind was almost completely free of thought; uncertaintly about how much time had lapsed; strong surges of energy, accompanied by a sense of mental clarity; moments when you feel "elsewhere", for want of a better word. More often than not, the group doesn't quite reach that level ...

yankl: Good night Framl and everyone else. Maestro Perlman's concert is wrapping up and I must retire now!

LadyV: Night FRAML I am hopeful that the Homeless will find some warmth and food for a little while in your Church. I am glad there is space for them. Thank you FRAML.

Cuan: Hello LadyV - *S - taking a moment to discard a clod or two I picked from the henge - Hi all

Yopo : Good night, FRAML! (It is supposed to be over 60 degrees here tomorrow ... *S*)

LadyV: Night yankl always think of the book written by Yankl when I see your nick ... have to find that book it was a good one ... something about survival and how to manage it.

FRAML: Good night.

FRAML: YOPO: Same here the next 2 days.

Skycatcher: alremkin - So true. Only in our own 3D ways of expressions are there "ahead" or "behind", "above" or "below". I bent over to tie my shoe, and felt the breeze of at least 4 blessed souls pass me! LOL

LadyV: Cuan life is good for you ... I hope!

alremkin: Hi Stands, good night FRAML and yankl.

Cuan: Life is as it should be

guitarist: No, Skycatcher; but I am concerned by how this word has such negative connotations for people -- especially all the encrusted notions you and others mentioned. I will not deny your opportunity; nay, I am glad for it. I am very glad to not have hurt you after all.

Skycatcher: LOL Cuan - hey! let's leave the clods in the 'Henge - please!

Yopo: Hello LEGS *S*

LEGS : (((((((BEN))))) (((((YOPO)))))) ((((((LadyV)))))) ((((((FRAML))))))

alremkin: Skycatcher: Lol

LEGS: ((((guitarist & Yankl))))) hello alremkin

MysticalOne: peace and blessings to all ... time to move on for the nite ... Lady V havent forgotten the name ... still asking about it ... Love to you and protective light ...

Ben : Yopo, It sounds like the spiritual dynamics start internal and individual, and in a good session become synchronized into a mutual altered state of consciousness.

Cuan: Skycatcher - yes

alremkin: Stands: Did you go to the conference in Sedona last year?

Skycatcher: Encrusted notions are like barnacles on a boat. When they are scrubbed and chipped off, the boat runs much smoother and faster. This particular boat does not fear having my hull scraped, but I do reserve the right to hollar loud and long if it hurts!!!

Cuan: {{{LEGS}}}

guitarist: (((LEGS))) and nice to meet you, Cuan.

LEGS: Long time no see (((((Cuan)))))

alremkin: Hi Legs: Did you get the article I wrote and sent to the ezine?

LadyV: MysticalOne thank you. Peace.

LadyV: Hi LEGS ...

alremkin: A month late.

Ben: LEGS, Hello! Long time no see! How are you?

alremkin: Skycatcher: I like that one.

LEGS: ((((alremkin))) it will be in the next issue ... thanx sooo much

Stands_Alone: alremkin yes but you know me I do not sense the energies in the full way that you do. But I did go feeling unconnected and I left at peace. why do you ask?

Cuan: a pleasure to be here guitarist

Ben: LEGS, Hah! I see we're on the same wavelength. We both typed "Long time no see" at the same time. :)

Skycatcher: alremkin - just had a thought. When I drive dark mountain roads, I often slow down and let someone pass me just so his beams can light up the road ahead of me. I travel faster that way, using both his light and my own. Hmmmmmmm ...

FRAML: ***********POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF************

Stands_Alone: Hello Lady V *S*

FRAML: H'm "long time no sea" is what they say about Muroc Dry Lake.

Cuan : LEGS - I've been away from this place - but I've missed it

Yopo : Ben ... Yes, pretty much. What I find particularly interesting about it, is the way the group synchronizes internally in the absence of any noticable external cues. The room is dim, figures of the drummers shadowy and indistinct. The rythym of the drumming is ALWAYS synchronized, and conveys little. Yet the experience somehow becomes collective. Seems to imply connection via channels that are not entirely physical ...

alremkin: Legs: Good I look forward to any responses.

LEGS: Ben, been traveling this month and came home to find my hard drive had given up the ghost ... am on the Leoprechauns' pc now

Ben : FRAML, Good night. Sleep well. Thanks for a good seminar.

LadyV: Hello StandsAlone [smiling]

FRAML: & that also applies to folks with scurvy.

alremkin: Stands: I was wondering what you thought about it? Was it better than the year before?

FRAML: No vitamin C.

FRAML: Thank you all. RE-POOOOOOOF

Yopo: FRAML *hehe* Took me a moment to realize how punny that comment was ...

Cuan: I'm a bit sorry I missed the event in here

Skycatcher: Thank you all. And Yopo, I've been watching your drumming discussion as well - fascinating. I get so mesmerized by drummings. Thanks for your thoughts on it. Bye ALL.

LEGS: *LOL* Framl ... sweet dreams ... sorry I was running late and missed it but will review tomorrow

Cuan: C'ya Skycatcher

Yopo: G'd night, Skycatcher *S*

Skycatcher: Lady V - will you be on tomorrow? Perhaps we could meet in a room and chat about healing a bit? I'm on PST, so it's about 8:45PM for me right now. Do you want to schedule a meet?

alremkin: Cuan: Where are you located I see you have the same ISP as me. I'm in Vancouver, BC.

Ben: Yopo, as an experiment, I've had groups start clapping their hands with no leader. It is amazing how quickly they (usually) synchronize so they're all clapping in unison. And marching in a group can become collective so one isn't as fatigued as when walking or marching alone. It's almost like riding in a bus.

alremkin: Good night skycatcher.

LadyV: Skycatcher I am at 10:57 Texas time ... what is the difference in time ... thinking of schedule here ...

Cuan: I'm in P.G.

guitarist: Goodnight, and blessings, (((Skycatcher))). :)

Skycatcher: Ben - perhaps that's a biological imperative, seeking or unconsciously creating synchronicity. When women live together, in dorms or large families, their cycles will synchronize as well.

Ben: LEGS, I knew you were away from home. Too bad about the hard drive. As FRAML might say, better than a HARD DRIVE.

alremkin: Cuan: ah not quite neighbors, but close for here.

Skycatcher: You're two hours ahead of me. So if we meet at ... say 10 my time, it'd be 12 yours. I'm usually up early in the mornings, if that works for you. My cats start the "feed me" dance at 5:30 or 6 AM

Stands_Alone: alremkin tis hard for me to quantify if better as i barely experience all the wonderful energy all enthuse about. But More and more are coming and the joy of them as they come together and find a deep inner peace and connection is lovely to see. I remember just david and three people and now how it has grown so, and people are coming to gether and it is good. The Center was wonderful, it was a place of great beauty, the site, the water sounds and the scuptures, as it is a place of much positive work the place itself gives peace. David reserved it for next year as well. You are such a strong student on your own, seems like the conferences would just be as confirmations for you . David is sharing the speaking with Patricia and she is actually channeling live and the kiara adds another dimension with her music. It all come together very nicely.

LEGS : *LOL* Ben ... punny yourself tonite, huh? Must be catching around Framl *G*

LEGS: We are in the Tx swing, LadyV ... cold nites, and hot days, supposed to be near 80 tomorrow and Monday ...

Ben: Skycatcher, yes, I think it is partly biological, like birds fly with less effort in flocks, though mostly psychological and sometimes spiritual. There is strength in harmony.

Cuan: alremkin - yes , very close - although the distance is imaterial - I've felt closer to ppl in here than a lot of ppl I meet in RL - might be the Mask of anonymity that allows ppl to open up more - seems some are apprehensive about ppl seeing their humanity

Yopo: Ben ... It is surely that the mind LIKES synchronization. Seems like it even imposes synchronization on our perceptions. The flapping of a bird's wings, or the strides of a person walking along the sidewalk, can seem to become synchronized with the music coming out of your car radio, for example. The mind is always trying to find the underlying order. The interesting question sometimes is whether it is creating the appearance of order and connection, or revealing something that is already out there.

LadyV : I know I sent that message out ... oh, drat ... now where did it go ... SkyCatcher lets plan this next week ... I have to shuffle here. Thanks.

Cuan: something to be said about the courage it takes to be the exposed rock as well

LadyV: Legs thats a good word for it ... my toes are cold now!! [laughing]

Skycatcher: Definately so. But I believe all things "echo". Can't quite express it, maybe it's the "As Above, so below" thing. But I believe what is found in spiritual realms will also be echoed in physical, psychological, etc. realms as well, and all come together to create a holistic reality. Does that make sense? I don't feel like I'm quite expressing what I want here.

Yopo: LEGS Have you decided yet between a factory-built and a Leoprechuan-built PC?

alremkin : Stands: That's good. There's another member in Vancouver now and I hope he'll want to go to next year's meeting it would help with the cost of gas which is by far the greatest expense for me. We usually met to join the meditation. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the event.

Sun, 27-Jan-2002 05:00:32 GMT
-------------------------------------------------------------
Skycatcher: LOL Lady V - you pm'd it!

LEGS: The car radio music reminds me of being careful when I drive not to fall into the rhythm like my daddy drove ... fast to the faster beats and nearly 20 mph to the slow ones, he is probably the only motorist to ever get a warning ticket on the California Freeways for driving too slow. *s*

alremkin: Cuan: I think people find it easier to be open on the internet because it's not necessary to maintain a physical presence.

LadyV: SkyCatcher I am losing my marbles [laughing] it has been one of those days ... I kid you not ... Nuts!!

Skycatcher: OK alremkin - member of what? what conference are you talking about? where? inquiring minds want to know ...

LEGS: (((LadyV))) know what you mean ... *G*

LadyV: Legs [laughing] Yep!!

Cuan: Skycatcher - reverberations? - wave forms? - bubbles? - as above so below - what is found in Heaven is found here - all the knowledge of the Universe is contained in a drop of dew?

WanderingSou: *slipping in* Evening all.

Yopo: (Presumably we all HAVE physical presences. Though I suppose that IS a presumption ... )

LadyV: Hi WanderingSou

Skycatcher: LOL Yeah Cuan - that!

alremkin: Skycatcher: I'm talking about the annual meeting of the Arcturian Groups of forty in Sedona. I missed last year's meeting.

LEGS: Yopo, I'm thinking compaq ... Leoprechaun is thinking all new parts ... but as you know, he used to design and build motherboards and other components, so perhaps I should be glad he is thinking of starting completely from scratch ... that would take forever ... *LOL*

Ben : Yopo, harmony tends to create and sustain, as synchronized waves amplify each other, and disharmony tends to weaken and destroy, and waves out of phase diminish each other. I think this is a functional description of the LOGOS as described by Heraclitus. What he said can be written CHAOS <--> LOGOS <--> COSMOS. In words, the LOGOS is the natural law that governs all processes that create order, and reversed, all processes that reduce order to chaos, in all realms of existence.

LEGS : ((((((WanderingSou)))))) has been a long time ... Bless your heart, how are you?

Skycatcher: Ahhh, I thought I saw "Sedona" float by. Haven't been there for years. Been thinking about driving out for a weekend here soon (from Los Angeles). Dont' know anything about your group though.

LadyV: I have a question to ask. REspectfully ... last night I accessed a site via a nick and I was on that site twice. Then I was told that was not the right site and was given another site. That site sent a flag of warning on a virus. My NOrton immediately isolated it into a quarantine file. Now I was told this is impossible on a JPG and it had to be on my PC to start with. Would one of you tell me what happened here? I am not PC savvy. I think I have to repair this when I can ... and I will as soon as I get a PC expert to help me outside. Did I have the virus previously ... or was the flag telling me the truth that the virus was on that site?

Cuan: alremkin - yes - is it the etheral bodies that cause discomfort? - is it that we can afford more control over who we allow to share this field with over the internet?

Yopo: LEGS I'm not sure you could actually save any money that way. PC prices are amazingly low these days.

Skycatcher: It really is past time for me to go. I'm having an awful time tearing myself away! So ... here I go! Right now! Really!!!!!! I mean it this time!!!!!!!!! *poof*

Stands_Alone: Alremkin that would be nice. I know Nick and I had such wonderful drives together when we went together to the crestone ones. I am signing off for the night I think. I just started my second job today. It will only be 8 hours aweek on top of my full time job. I went on a weeks vacation as I left the conference and I ran up my charge cards. I am hoping to get a little caught up and this next conference I am thinking of taking a two week vacation. I went on a photographic trek, and i have been selling many of the images I took on the vacation, tis spurring me to finally start sharing the images i have collected since my youth. sold a neat triptich that was a statement about the 60's people loved the nostalgia the images provoked. anyways poofing. nice to catch up with you {{{{{{Lady V}}}}nighty night from me *S*

WanderingSou : *little smile* I am well LEGS thank you ... yourself? *chin in hand awaiting with genuine interest*

ThomasforE: Greetings ...

guitarist : (thinking quietly *harmony happens to be my singing specialty* and I love it so!)

LadyV : ThomasforE I spoke to you earlier and you vanished ... Hello ...

Yopo: Ben Whew! I'm gonna have to think about that comment for a while ... *S*

ThomasforE: in that case i apologize *s*

Stands_Alone: skycatcher if you bookmark my niks link you can find out about the conferences

ThomasforE: *tosses that over to Lady V

alremkin: Skycatcher: Stands_Alone has linked her name to the web page. Basically David Miller was asked by the Arcturians to form 40 groups fo 40 memebers each to help with ascension. David and Patricia Pereira channel at the annual meeting.

guitarist: Hello, ThomasforE

Cuan: Ben - does that favour order over disorder?

LEGS : An example of physical disharmony would be what happened to the air liner that crashed because of the Rudder (right part?) that vibrated off ... (simplification)

ThomasforE: Hi there, guitarist ... *s*

LadyV: ThomsaforE ok ... think I caught the toss [laughing] you are a mellow spirit ... welcome ...

Cuan: 'Without contaries there is no progression' W. Blake - As above so below - what is found in heaven can also be found in hell

ThomasforE: and thanks for the warm welcome, Lady V ... did i miss anything earlier?

alremkin: Good night Stands and Skycatcher.

LadyV: ThomasforE think so ... pleasant chat tonight ... you can read it in review tomorrow in the review log ... Saturday Night is generally very pleasant in here. Newbies always welcome.

LEGS: Hi Thomas

Ben : Cuan, Yes, and if it didn't, nothing at all would exist. Creative processes must preceed destructive processes, because something must be created before it can be destroyed.

Yopo: Ben I'm trying to figure out how that ties in with the need for troops to break step when crossing a long bridge ... The danger of synchronization CREATING chaos ... (*LOL* Just 'cause my mind is working, doesn't mean it's working RIGHT ... )

WanderingSou: Tis pleasantly mellow energy in here ... thanks to each.

LadyV: As a minor note there are nearly 6,000 virus now of date on the Norton. PUts the fear of God in you ... especially, when the machine you are using belongs to the Bank of America ...

ThomasforE : Lady V ... well ... that DOES definetly sound interesting *s* ... unfortunatly i will have to limit this to a shorttrip tonight ... but the idea of getting out of the newbie-status in future tempts me *ss*

ThomasforE: hi LEGS *S*

LadyV: ThomasforE ok ... we will look for you. Next time you become a regular ... How is that? [smiling]

ThomasforE: Lady V ... and the time after that??*s*

Ben: Yopo, Short form explanation of the Logos: To build, put energies or things or people or spirits together in harmony. To destroy, pull them apart or turn them against each other.

alremkin: Cuan: Do you come down to Vancouver very often?

LEGS: Yopo, that would be physical disharmony also ... like the plane tail piece disintegrating enough to cause the whole plane to shudder and drop its engines ... remember?

LadyV: first time that I have seen NetZero.Com in here on this site ... that is a new one for us.

ThomasforE: same for me ... lol

Yopo: LEGS I think maybe my little paradox really stems from inconsistant definitions of "chaos" or something ... *S*

LadyV: Thomas are you Irish? Sound Irish to me ...

WanderingSou: Good night all. Be safe and dream sweetly.

LadyV: Night WanderingSou

Ben: Yopo, Have to break troops out of step when crossing a bridge because they generate so much more energy on the bridge when they are in step. And if they are synchronized with the bridge's natural frequency, they may set the bridge to working against itself by amplifying every deviation from normal.

Cuan: I struggle with this - I can see reverberations in wave forms - string theory seems to be outlining a certain 'fabric' - fractals produce symmetry from apparently chaotic systems - what intrigues me is the effect of two waves that collide at exactly opposite intervals - a nul wave - seems disharmony is necesary to promote the continuity of harmony

LEGS: (((((((WanderingSou)))))) sweet dreams dearheart

ThomasforE : lol ... nope ... actually besides being planetarian im central european on a trip in CA ... *s*

alremkin: Good night Wanderingsou

alremkin: I have to go now, good night everyone. I love you.

alremkin: Namaste.

ThomasforE : i gotta go aswell, dear souls ... enjoy your timezones *s*

LadyV: ThomasforE I hope you enjoy your trip to CA. Its ok not to be Irish ... God knows we think we populated the world from the way we gab. [laughing]

LadyV: ThomasforE goodnight in your timezone.

Cuan: ecosystems depend on diversity for health - I cannot deny my belief in an underlying 'Work' - what I see is at odds with what I feel - black/white - good/evil - we seem to live in a world on contradictions - my faith in an ordered universe is at once strengthened and shaken

LEGS: Namaste alremkin ... are you going to send me a pic for your bio???

guitarist: Goodnight, alremkin and ThomasforE ... blessings

ThomasforE: *grins at Lady V and slips out ... *

Cuan: C'ya alremkin & ThomasforE

LadyV: ThomasforE [smiling]

LadyV: giov Hello wise one ... HOw are you tonight?

guitarist: ... and Wanderingsoul as well ...

Yopo : Ben *nodding* That was what I'd confused myself thinking about. Order, synchronization (harmony), leading to chaos (a collapsing bridge); disorder, (disharmony), preserving order (the bridge doesn't fall down). *G* I think if I try to unravel this mystery at this late hour, I will likely unravel my brain.

LadyV: Yopo [laughing]

Ben : Cuan, black/white, true/false, good/evil, are the delusion of the duality of opposites, which is a human way of thinking does not exist in reality. I found I needed to look and think in terms of gradations: black/gray/white, true/uncertain/false, good/neutral/evil.

LadyV: Last message 3 minutes ago ... what happened?

LadyV: we were thinking?

giov: {{LadyV}} good day/night. In the biorhythmic troughs, I must admit :)

Yopo: LadyV I spent three wasted minutes trying to unravel the mystery ... *S*

Cuan : if we follow the Ordered universe to it's logical conclusions it seems to me we have to accept all as being in 'Tune'- even if our perspective clouds our view - our five inept senses being too close to the Work to perceive the grandeur - this position gives rise to acceptance of certaion events in history as ordained and even sanctioned

LEGS: Now Yopo, you are a very well-knit young man, so you may feel like ravelling, but you would have to work hard at it ... no slip stitches in you.

Ben: Yopo, I remember when you unraveled your brain before, but you raveled it up again. *grin*

LEGS : Bravo Cuan, I agree with you ... Faith Hope and Charity require a certain degree of Trust as well

LadyV: giov when the discussion in here gets depth I have to be with it from the start or I lose it ... which that has happened tonight ... its great to watch it unfold. There is magic in thought ... when I review and have time to digest it I learn something ... that is why the site is so stimulating ...

LadyV: Yopo think so ... [grinning]

giov: Cuan our perpective is clouded from all the ways we are involved in duality.

LEGS : *lol* Ben, now that is one of those words like flamable and inflamable

LadyV: The Delai Lama has a lump in the stomach. I said "I pray not ... he is part of the hope for this world" it has caused me to feel concern and sad. We will be hopeful.

Yopo : I just have to remember not to pull on the loose threads ...

Cuan: this is where Faith comes in - Acceptance of Place? - uncertain: there are things we are not meant to know at tihs time?

giov: LadyV. You are right. Without preparation and timing magic can't be properly done. :) btw: I can feel your honesty

LadyV: giov thank you ...

Ben : All (and sundry), time for me to rest. Peace and blessings to each of you.

Amazaz: ((((giov))) I am here :) (((((Everyone))))) *S*

LadyV: Ben goodnight ... best to your family.

LadyV: Hi Zaz ...

Amazaz: LadyV: hi ... the Dalai Lama is sick??

LEGS: (((((BEN))))) sweet Dreams

LadyV: Zaz yes ... I heard it tonight on CNN he has a lump in the stomach. He will go into a hospital in Bombay.

Amazaz: LadyV: That is sad, I will pray for him ... we need him here.

Yopo: Good night, Ben! *S* Blessings ... (I will be thinking about the Order/Logos/Chaos comment for quite a while yet ... )

Cuan : giov - is it possible to choose not to involve ourselves in this contradiction - Believe what you Will and so Will it Be - there is evidence to support the ability of the human mind to influence the outcome of mechanical systems - even biological systems - what if were free to exert our will towards a reconcilliation of sorts - Micheal Talbot writes about this

giov: *Like resurfacing from the deep, Amazaz breaks the waterline*

Cuan: G'night Ben and Thnx

LadyV : Zaz yes ... that will help ... I feel so ... He is needed.

Ben: Cuan: All I meant about true/uncertain/false is there there are a lot things we don't know for sure although some people say they are certain.

LadyV : I wonder if we could influence our PC via our minds ... I think women do that with sewing machines ... and some guys with trucks ...

guitarist: <<<***(((goodnight and blessings, BEN)))***>>>

Amazaz: (((((giov)))) *S*

Cuan: *smiles - I can understan that - again thnx

giov: Cuan I do not doubt what you say. Earlier One of you spoke of resonant frequencies and dualities creating each other. And the intensification of duality. We are progressively experiencing the transcendence of the influence of the dual and find independence from the fratricidal brotherhoods of Atantis using us as pawns in their power game.

Amazaz : One of my kitties is SO jumpy!!! Wonder what's up ... I think they see things we don't see.

LEGS: ((((Amazaz))))

Amazaz : giov: Do you believe there is a Brotherhood of Atlantis?

giov : Sorry go little carried away, but in essence the intensification of actually very similar opposites is setting up for a final struggle. Apparently we can opt out of this in creative ways.

Yopo : LadyV I know people who CLAIM they have a very negative effect on PCs ... That the machines tend to malfunction when they're present ... *S* I've never wanted to TEST that statement. At least not on MY machine.

Amazaz: (((((LEGS)))) Good to see you, how are you? :)

Cuan : and so they turn up the heat sort-to-speak - I'm afraid some are gettign abit nervous

Sun, 27-Jan-2002 06:00:19 GMT
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Amazaz : LadyV: I get along ok with machines ... I have a strange relationship with them, I thank them as though they were conscious beings and I think they appreciate that. I whisper 'thank you' to the computer and the elevator for example *LOL* The world I come from has bio-machines, sentien beings who have chosen toserve thus ... but of course I don;t tell this to jusy anyone, I know how it sounds *G*

Cuan: giov - read the holographic universe by micheal talbot

guitarist : I'm going to bed myself, friends ... shalom u v'racha ... peace and blessings ... *poof*

Amazaz: ((((guitarist))))) sleep well, bye ...

Cuan: g'night guitarist

LadyV: Yopo I feel all things have energy. Maybe one puts the individual energy into electronics? I know that when you work with a machine you know its quirks and it seems to respond to you. Many psychics are saying that the PC is now the new avenue between the 3D and the spirit world ... and that is original to say the least ... but then there might be something to that ... it is the use of energy in form to transmit our messages ... and now there are those working on getting the PC to feel how we feel ... for medical reports daily ... to check our temps ... isn't that weird? I feel that it is.

Yopo: Good night, guitarist! Bright and peaceful dreams ...

LadyV: zaz I feel the same way about elevators ... I ask them not to stop between floors so I have to climb out ... and to behave ... I jinx an elevator and sometimes I refuse to get inside one. I understand your comments about the machines that you work with.

giov: Cuan, thank you, although I have piles of books around me

LadyV: night guitarist rest well ...

giov: Amazaz, I have just learned that there are basically two

Yopo: LadyV Hmm ... I remember something about that ... Uh ... Someone attempting to use a modified PC to communicate with the hereafter ... I can't recall WHERE I read about that. It was a page having to do with Electronic Voice Phenomenon ...

Amazaz: LadyV: Thank you for understanding yes I also ask elevators to behave *S* I feel that everything has energy and everything needs love, it is so simple. I could not just smash a machine, no way ...

Cuan: that book is one of the most revealing books I have read in a long time - the theory is nothing less than the underlying principle of reality - I was introduced to the concept in '95 - it is attractive and well documented in the holographic universe

Amazaz: giov: And you are these Two and what do they want?

LadyV: Yopo suppose if they can use phones and recorders a PC would be next ... I would get spooked.

LadyV: Zaz seems sad to smash anything ... I have problems smashing bugs ...

Amazaz: LadyV: same here ...

Cuan: *smiles - when I board planes I'll touch the outside of the bulkhead as I enter and wish a safe passage - *shrugs - just seems like the right thing to do

LadyV: Cuan makes sense ...

Amazaz: Cuan: ... would it be difficult for you to explain to me a little about the principles in the Holographic Universe, please?

Amazaz: Cuan: Yes that is the right thing to do *S*

Yopo : LadyV I suppose I told you already about my idea concerning an experiment to use PCs as a means for telepathic communication ... ?

LEGS: Yopo, remember, I consider the SWC to be a portal to messages from the other side ... so in effect that would be using pc's.

LadyV: Yopo oh, heck that is how you communicate with me half the time ... read your mind after all these years [laughing] Well, most times ...

giov: LadyV I would say the electronics you are using are not patterned in the same way as you as an organism are. Its components and circuits and the fields of its operation are not created together with any reference to divinity except is a most indirect and haphazard way. Their 3D energy is not beneficial. I think the Internet allows the assisting of humanity to grow into large clusters of like-minded creators who are aligned with the terrestrial and celestial energies and use the power of thought and love to forge an inner psychic collective manifestation of God. - mind you this is from a pisces - :)

LadyV: Oh, boy ... the neighbor is home ... with the "I have been drinking but forgive me darlin' music" ... and it is loud! My elderly neighbors are going to be upset!!

Yopo: LEGS Hmm ... I will admit to having sent PMs to certain persons who were once on SWC, but are no longer among us. As yet, no answers ... *S*

Amazaz: giov: Would you say then that the Internet is a Gateway to the Divinity?

LadyV: giov [smiling] agree. The people that work on PC are trying to duplicate the components and circuits of the human brain ... which is impossible of course ... agree about the comments concerning the Internet ... SkyCatcher mentioned earlier about energy via the data machine mimic of her use of energy in healing via the massage that is her profession. I thought that was interesting.

Yopo: LadyV *S* Uh, yes, come to think, that HAS happened on more than one occasion. And, I recall an instance with another individual, too, that was actually very alarming.

Amazaz: I definitely think machines can be our friends, and vice-versa *S*

LadyV : Yopo the heart is eased ... answer or no answer ... someone somewhere hears ... believe that all we do is observed by something or someone ... we are part of a whole ... the more I live the more I feel that is true.

LEGS: LadyV, that is a beautiful and comforting thought to me

Cuan: I'll never do the theory justice but essentially a hologram exists as a substance onto which interference patterns are projected - these patterns resemble the interference you see when two pebbles are thrown into water - when a lazer, or point source of 'light' is projected onto the surface a 3d image is created - now the striking thing about a holographic plate is that it can be broken into pieces and each piece will contain the image in full - dna - the human brain posess this ability - objects resonate with a certain frequency and the coupling of an objects resonance and light waves creates similar interference patterns suggesting the possibility of a hologram - this will not be entirely accurate and will fall far short of what Talbot explains - but essentially the ability of the mind toi exert control over a physical universe is allowed under this theory

LadyV: LEGS I am glad.

Amazaz: CUan: Thank you for your post *S*

Amazaz: Cuan: This theory reminds me of the beliefs of teh Australian Aborigenes, who believe that thought creates matter, and that is how the world came about *S*

Yopo : The mind being a mysterious device that turns the quantum interference patterns of the implicate order into the appearance of a sequential-time experience in a three- diminsional physical world ...

LadyV : Cuan that is the reason that some of us see the Universe as a Hologram. To me it is the most logical explanation for the Universe. Key word is " ... the holographic plate can be broken ... and each piece will contain the image in full ... " We are all one ... what did you say earlier ... about what is above is below ... it is to my mind. Daniel [nick] wrote the most interesting summary of the Hologram that I have read so far. I hope he published it in a book somewhere ... it was based on physics of which I know nothing ... for the scientific mind ... the Jewish Kabbalah has the same principle with The Tree or so I think ... and that is based on 'feeling'

LEGS: (((Yopo))) ((((LadyV)))) ((((Cuan)))) ((((Amazaz))))) how I have enjoyed this evening ... er, early morning chat among you ... blessings to each of you. This has been my pouting week because of the pc crashing, but tonite has been wonderful visiting here ... "my addiction" according to Yopo, and I admit he is right ... the pc and the chance to chat with friends and family

Amazaz: LadyV: Our society greatly under-estimates "feeling" and Intuitive knowledge ...

giov: Cuan they mind most definitely has that ability. It is using it all the time. Often in consort with others.

Amazaz: (((((LEGS))))) Have a great evening *HUG*

LadyV : Yopo telepathy is experienced by like minds and hearts ... and is a gift from God. Always treasure this ... it is a connection of respect and caring for one another ... and if it happens with you and others ... be happy. It is rarely felt and understood. It is the heart not the mind that feels this.

LadyV: LEGS like the 3 am chats we use to have ... I don't think I slept much in the early years of the site ... I was so busy learning ... still am learning.

Amazaz: ((((((LadyV))))) I agree, beautiful thought *S*

LadyV: Zaz agree ...

Yopo: LEGS I've much enjoyed your company, too! Hope you get that PC soon. (I was only kidding about the "addiction", LEGS. *S*)

LEGS: Yopo, the Leoprechaun believes that we will conquer space travel which currently has as a problem, the time involved to travel anywhere, by eventually being advanced enough to "think" ourselves to wherever we wish to be. The artificial intelligence machine components now in pc's, could aid in that particular "thinking process" don't you suppose?

Yopo : LEGS Just don't get me started thinking about the movie "The Matrix" ... *S*

LadyV: night LEGS ...

giov: Amazaz the question about the 2 brotherhoods is a hard one. How to codese a book - ask Cuan - (he he) - I was shown that the nazi hierachy and intellectual mielu was immersed in the same type of esoteric lodge trappings as the masons. These can be traced to the fratricide that caused the destruction of atlantis. Earth dramas theoretically involve, in part their struggles representing the black and white lodges. Neither can be our goal, those who ascribe to magic, since they represent the duality that has been at war on earth, and in all things and ourselves, and now that we see through this and all other dualities we can work our way toward equilibrium. The new Power that is emerging is from within, it isn't a temporal power but it is more powerful than all.

Cuan: Daniel is far too technical for me - I enjoyed Talbot for his lucid style on documented sources

Cuan: {{{LEGS}}}

LadyV: Yopo I forgot to tell you. I read last night that the lizard is considered the one that takes the burdens that you own and adds those burdens to thier burdens. I puzzled over the Don Juan connection in those books ... about Mexico for years ... and those darn lizards ... the mouth of the lizards were sewn together ... to keep the secrets!! Excuse diversion from subject ... but I just remembered to tell Yopo that ...

LadyV: Cuan I have not read Talbot and I will ... you are most likely right ... as usual [smiling]

Amazaz : giov: Thank you for the explanation, I think I understand better intuitively hey guess what?? My son would probably love to discuss this with you (he is amazaing) he came on yesterday (surprising his mama) as Amagon LOL I think you 2 would have very intersting conversations *S* He is Gemini with Pisces rising.

giov: LadyV By technology we touch. Soon we wonÕt even need that.

Yopo : LadyV Whoa! *LOL* That was a sudden U turn ... Actually, I always had trouble with the poor sewn lizards. Never quite thought so kindly toward Don Juan after that incident ...

Amazaz: ((((((((EVERYONE)))))))) I have to go ... son invited me to see a scary movie with him and his dad *G* Lots of Love to all ((((((giov))))) see you soon *S*

LadyV: Yopo sometimes I burst with those 'aha' experiences. My mind races here ... and then its over there ... can't help it ... so much in it ... not in order of course ... [laughing]

LadyV: night Zaz ... have fun ...

Yopo: G'd night, Amazaz

Cuan: I gave away my copy and have missed it ever since - thnx for your words all - Namaste!

giov: Amazaz Armagon cool nic

LadyV : giov you are right. It would be sad to lose the touch. We need this to live and be healthy. That is why so many of us can carry on long term relationships as friends ... or for some as lovers ... because they have the ability to transform thought into reality without the touch ... for a time-frame. It takes a mature mind to do this ... and a mind that is balanced and understanding the power of thought ... some can move the thought into touch ... in the astral world this is easily done.

Cuan: as a last Q - can antone suggest a source for Don Juan that is not Casteneda?

LadyV: night Cuan ... night Yopo ...

Amazaz: giov: Yes he has a cool nic *hugs* I have to go ...

LadyV: Cuan there is one a student. I will get her name for you later. I have ordered the book.

cubed: Namaste all

LEGS : Hope everyone isn't leaving, the Leoprechaun is involved in a late movie, so I will chat some more

Yopo: Much as I hate to, I'm gonna have to get some sleep. A very good night to you, LadyV! Good night LEGS! *S* giov, Cuan, Amazaz ... Blessings, ALL. Bright dreams!

LadyV: Hi cubed ...

cubed: ((LEGS))((Yopo))

LEGS: (((((((YOPO)))))))goodnite dearheart ... much love to you

cubed: ((LadyV))

LadyV : LEGS found a new book today. A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry. I am looking forward to reading it. It is about INdia.

LEGS: ((((((cubed)))))) I think I just thought you up ... *S*

Cuan : I would appreciatre that - ppl have told me that Carlos took some liberties with the knowledge he was allowed

Cuan: g'night all

cubed: LEGS cool ... :)

Yopo: G'd night to you too, Cube'd one ... *S*

Cuan: {{{*}}}

Yopo: *gone*

LadyV: Cuan the last book Carlos wrote about the death and dying was interesting. I agreed with him. Saying this ... need to back that up with a fact ... and the name of the book ... and I draw a blank ... but I have it in a pile somewhere ... it si a profound and truthful book ... and scary really ... but I believe CArlos was right ... I will find it for you.

LEGS: LadyV have you ever read any of the anthropological tales called "People of the ... " there have been several covering the pre-history ... with the designations following 'the' as Grasslands, Plains, Mists and so on ... I am now reading the People of the Mists ... fascinating.

LadyV : LEGS No I haven't read those books ... sounds interesting.

cubed: Blessings Yopo ... Cuan ...

LEGS: Good nite dear Yopo

giov: Cuan, LadyV, as soon as the knowledge is out, somebody starts taking liberty with it :)

cubed: had a flying dream this morning ... first one i have remembered in a long time

LEGS: LadyV they are by Kathleen O'Neal Gear and W. Michael Gear

cubed: giov Shanti

giov: Cuan, I'll take a look at Talbot ...

LadyV : giov good point!! What is interesting is that it takes time to understand a concept. It does not come via the reading ... it comes via the absorption in your mind and heart. I sometimes dream of books I read. I have to know why ... this is so or is not so ... or why I feel it is so. One is led to comprehend if you search long enough. I do not know much about Atlantis Giov ... what sparked your interest in Atlantis?

giov: cubed Shalom

LadyV: LEGS thank you. I made a note of that.

LEGS : Other "Peoples" are of the Silence, Lakes, River, Lightning, Earth, Wolf, Fire, Mist, and Masks ... these are not small books either

cubed: ahh i have been in many of the camps that the Gears wrote about in the ;People of Fire: book ...

LadyV: LEGS did you find any similiarites in the books? It would be a master skill not to repeat scenes in all those books!!

LEGS: "People of the Mist" is set in the Chesapeake Bay area over 600 years ago ... with the Algonquins

giov: LadyV I'm not usually much interested in Atantis, but I just finished a book about it, parts of which contained important information for my gig-saw puzzle, so I am still enthused about it. "enthusing" a bit tonight ... :)

cubed: in Wyoming the Gears lived 45 miles from me ... even talked to them on the phone ... was cool ...

LadyV : giov ok ... misunderstood thought Atlantis was of interest to you.

LEGS: LadyV, it is a master skill ... each book is so well researched, both anthopologically and archaeologically, that you might expect it to be dull, but it is woven into such interestingly peopled stories that it holds your attention

giov: LadyV, you are so right, the understanding is revealed to us by an inner comprehension. This also leads us to the right books for us.

LadyV : LEGS Now I am curious. I am going to HOustoun soon ... there is a very big Barnes and Nobles up there ... I might find time to check on those books.

LEGS: Wow, cubed, that is a fabulous piece of synchonisticity

Sun, 27-Jan-2002 07:00:32 GMT
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cubed: much of what they write about is fact ... its a nice blend of bringing archaeology to life

LadyV: giov yes!! I was going to ask if you were sometimes 'led' to just the right books? This happens to me often ... I have learned to trust this inner comprehension. It becomes to me a way of life. I ponder over this sometimes ... if I neglect the journey of the inner comprehesion and that is what it is a 'journey to discovery' I am sad and unhappy.

LEGS: cubed, were they interested in seeing the pictures on the cliffs? ... can't think of the right term ... but we saw the ones near Petersborough, Ontario ... Canada in 1997

cubed: LEGS ahhh yes synchonisticity ...

giov: LadyV so many, many things are of interest, but the most for me might be poetry, that doesn't have to answer to any particular interest, and coultivation of the love that ignites it.

LadyV: giov is there a tune that noone hears but the one that is in the 'inner ear'? I perfer this at times ... its peaceful.

cubed: LEGS the petrogliffs (sp)?? rock art??

LadyV: giov I noticed that do enjoy poetry. There is an 'old world' quaintness in your poetry. A delicate way ... there is another word "the ole' high way of love" in some of the poems I have read that you presented in the henge. It is of interest to me ... as I seldom read them except in the classics.

LEGS : In that case, giov, may I invite you to read my ezine ... tagged to my name. We publish a great deal of poetry in our ongoing encouragment of writers ... both engenue and professional. Also many different types of literature in the articles, columns and stories.

LadyV: LEGS good!! [smiling]

cubed: LEGS you know the Gears total left out (rock art) in there earlry books ... they know more sites then i do ... and i know about most of them in that area ...

LEGS: That's the word, cubed, thanx a million ... and hmmmm do you think they are a half million years old there ... or what?

cubed: i really miss Wyoming ...

LadyV: cubed I have not been there and even I would miss Wyoming ... that would be pretty country up there.

LEGS: Did you discuss that with them, cubed? I wonder why ... it is intensely interesting to me

cubed: LEGS hmmm maybe as old as 10,000 years ... maybe some what older

giov: *notices for the first time many large snakes looking intently from the Amaznian canopy of trees and vines.* The two brotherhoods were called, together, the brotherhood of the snake. The symbol was the cadeucis, the all-seeing eye of the creator above. Dragons of Wisdom and Serpents of Evil. The black and white lodges. Re Lizards, then. Our burdens are of service to us, and from them we learn. If the lizard took our burdens he would deprive us of our god-given ability to take on physical karma and learn. I would say no thank you. *S*

cubed: i think they left them out on purpous (sp) to protect them ... LadyV my oldest artifact from there is 14,000 years old ...

LadyV: giov the symbols of the Tarot ... interesting. You hold the shaman way. Wonder how that slipped past me ...

giov: petroglyphs

LadyV : cubed thats old!!! It is humbling to touch those things ...

giov: LadyV, you size people up in the nicest way

LEGS: cubed, I was just getting ready to suggest that might be the reason, plus the possibility of someone being injured while trying to get to them ... I know we have some very old ones close to where I live, however they are in an underground cavern that still has some of the submerged river that flows in parts of it. It is very unstable there now, and extremely dangerous even for experienced spelunkers

LadyV: giov where did you see them?

cubed: giov thanksssss ... LadyV yes very humbling and so is the place i found it ... it was a gift ... from the old ones ...

LadyV: giov thank you.

LadyV: cubed yes ... it was a gift. I am glad. [smiling]

giov: LEGS, thank you I will do that

cubed: many of the petroglyphs i saw were amazing ... a lot look like space men ... very strange stuff ...

cubed: some looked like assie pictographs (sp)

giov: LadyV, 'scuse me, see whom, or what?

LEGS: The Petersborough ones are protected in a glass house now, but the stone they are on is magnetic ... and the petroglyphs are supposed to be if not the oldest, then among the oldest, and show the turtle as earth emerging from the waters ...

LadyV: LEGS are there artifacts in the Frio River? I feel that there are ... near Concan was a village ... at one time ... a very long time ago ...

LadyV: giov I am in error you used the word petroglyph and I thought you meant the symbols of the Snake was on the rocks and I asked Where did you find them? It is my error sorry.

giov: LadyV, regarding the 'tune' I remember reading about the Sikh guru Nanak, who laboured so hard to bring peace to rival Muslim and Hindus. He taught continual recognition and meditation on the 'Naam", the holy sound, the name of god, the Word.

LEGS: Maybe so, LadyV ... I know the Nueces flows thru lava rocks ... and is so clear you can see 20 ft deep as clearly as 2ft. *Laughing* of course you could say the same about the Brazos ... but the difference would be the first is water and the second is mud

cubed : turtle glyphs in Wyoming too ... also Frogs ... go figure ... all my artifacts where surface finds and found with smudgeing and prays to the old ones ... proper maner ...

giov: LdayV just showing off and providing the spelling of the word ... I'm used to the henge where hardly anybody seems to pay attention! LOL

LEGS: There have been many artifacts found in the Canyons between RockSprings and Uvalde, but of the Plains Indians rather than earlier, as I understand it. Much the same is true in our area, however, both near my sister in Cleburne, and fairly near us here in W. Tx, there are the dinosaur prints that the stream beds have exposed.

cubed: giov thank you for that i had never heard of Sikh guru Nanak.

LadyV: giov Did Sikh guru Nanak succeed in bringing peace? I think they are still fighting ... the red rope is so easy to spot ... like the way "Naam" sounds ... often wondered about the tongue clicking the top of the palate ... as if it encompasses the Universe in one movement ... think of that when I hear the Monks chatting ... still gives me goose bumps.

cubed: LEGS the old ones where in your area too ... many old 10,000 years or older artifactes have been found close to you ... :)

LadyV: LEGS Nueces flows thru lava rocks ... be darned!! I did not know that ... The Brazos is just mud ... that river scares me ... then again seeing that perfect cone of a extinct volcano near Laredo, Texas was a surprise too ...

LEGS: Really, cubed? then it is possible I have some of those as well ... have many in our family ...

LadyV : giov depends ... some of us do catch the messages ... not all because when its so crowded ... they can slip by ...

cubed: ahh the Goddess ... always a suprise for ya ...

LadyV : cubed what I feel is that sometimes those little stones are unearthed for your seeing ... where they were not there the day before ... its strange ... and one did look. They are meant to be found ... but for those that search with the heart.

cubed: LEGS yes very much soo ... find some one you trust that knows about them ... i get the (feeling) that you have some Very Old Ones ...

LadyV : giov you are the Goddess? Is this your nick previously?

cubed: LadyV *i bow to you* very well said!!!

LEGS : LadyV, I once spent the summer near Laredo ... in Mirando City during an oil boom there, visiting my first mother in law, and enjoying the bougainvillia growing luxouriously on the porch trellis ... until the Mexican Stink bug migration came thru ... in about 3 days, and thousands of bugs later, the entire area had been stripped of all greenery other than young tumbleweeds ... I was told it happens about every 26 years. They were larger than the regulay stink bugs, but similar looking like detached gray bark, but they were irridescent and uglier.

giov: LadyV I think he achieved a lot in his day (about 700AD in the Punjab, between India and Pakistan, his teaching of recognizing others as beloved of god was pure, and of course the Sikh religion was started because of him. / Yes, they do fight, don't they, and not only them. Hmm. I'm straining to understand the monks and clicking but goose bumps are good! :)

LadyV: cubed feel it with my heart ... glad that you feel that way also ... it is a gift.

cubed: i am an EarthWalker ...

giov: LEGS I think there is a prophecy in the Bible about that. LOL

LadyV: LEGS hope they miss us this year.

giov: LadyV, no my nic was never Goddess.

cubed: LEGS hope they don;t show up anytime soon

LadyV: giov when you say the name you mentioned ... your tongue clicks to the roof of the palate ... try it ... then it rolls back ... when Monks chant that is what they do ... it is the sound of the Universe ... its a hum ... it is my feeling ... does not mean it is exact ... it is how I percieve. ... goose bumps are good [laughing]

LadyV: giov ok ... not Goddess ... thank you.

giov: OK it's just us 4, and I'm going to bow out. I arrived late and tired already but being with you was very nice. Good night ???LadyV?? ????Cubed? ?????LEGS???

LadyV: I was thinking just now ... that when I stare at a Monk or when I stare with interest at anything I must upset ... here I am concentrating on sound and tongue clicking and the Monks or whatever, may feel that I am intruding or insane one ... it is logical to me to observe ... I really should contain myself a bit [laughing]

LadyV: giov thank you for sharing ... goodnight ...

LEGS: I just wish I had the gift my mother has of seeing beauty in everything. She can draw your attention to the tiniest, or the most hidden ... really common things to show you something most people would miss. Once she said "walk gently over here by me and look at this" When I got there, she pointed down in front of where she knelt as she had been weeding the flower bed, and pointed to a black beetle that had crawled forward to escape the watering she was doing. I said ... what? the bug? and she said no, Kneel here and look at the drop of water on his back ... when I did I could see it had formed a mirror, and was reflecting the blue sky and fluffy white clouds that were nearly impossible to see because of the sun glare if one just looked at the sky straight up. A little mobile crystal ball.

LadyV: LEGS that is a beautiful MOther ... what a lovely tribute to her. [smiling]

giov: LadyV Not at all, I love free-association. good night. Till next time.

LEGS: Goodnite giov, nice chatting with you

LadyV : LEGS what you have just said to us is something beautiful to put on your site. ... Consider ... it would be a pleasure to read your memories that are your Mother.

LadyV: night giov

cubed: (giov) blessings

LadyV: giov is a Monk?

cubed: dreamtime for me too ((LEGS)) love ya ... ((LadyV))you too ... hehehehehe

LadyV: cubed gentle dreams ... enjoyed you ... goodnight ...

giov: LadyV Call me a monk and it may not be too far off. As long as I have a study in the monastery with all my books. But that was actual in another life, I think. Now i have to find my monastery in the subway. It's ok, just a little more difficult at times. :)

giov: Good noght LEGS, that was a wonderful story about your mother.

LEGS: Thank you for that idea, LadyV, I have many lovely close times with my parents and grandparents ... as the first child and grandchild to at least 3 sets of the grandparents and greatgrandparents, I was perhaps spoiled to being loved and encouraged to voice my thoughts, more perhaps than the other three girls were as they soon followed me into the family. *S*

LadyV: giov yes ... imagine it would be at times ... [smiling] when my 3D life is done ... I asked for one thing ... a library and a round table to share my thoughts with all my friends. To me that is heaven. I do understand your meaning and your feelings giov. Thank you for sharing.

giov: *gets in the canoe and paddles away* Love and Light to all. ~poof~

LadyV: LEGS you are a very fortunate lady ... you really are ... I am glad.

LEGS: nitey nite cubed ... journey well

LadyV : Wow! LEGS I think we closed the seminar tonight ... and I intended to be in bed by at least 10 PM ... what happened!! [laughing]

LEGS: I feel fortunate in sharing this chat with you tonite, LadyV, as always your love for mankind shines in your posts and when it comes to analyzing, you must be among the best. Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions tonite. (((((MaryHugs))))))

LEGS: LadyV, well who better than us to close it down ... a couple of Texas gals who enjoy people and chatting and learning and sharing.

LadyV: LEGS you are very kind. Thank you. I am headed out to see if I can get a TomCat out of my garage ... I am not sure how he got inside? He is not happy with me ... he is penned up and its not a night to stay inside ... I will go now. Take care of yourself.

LadyV: Yes!! thats true ... that we do ... Goodnight!

LEGS: Sweet Dreams, LadyV ... don't argue with the Tomcat ... just release him to his roaming nature ... come to think of it, that is pretty good advice for anyone who has problems with two-legged tomcats too. *LOL*