Ben< Good evening. I'll start setting up the room shortly. Please remember to type the nic of the person you are speaking to or replying to. That helps me arrange the transcript later.
StoicOne< Ben: 'evening
Ben< Greetings to all who are gathering here. I'm glad to see you.
Yopo< Good evening Ben, ALL ... *S*
Ben< I will mute the room for a few minutes while I post my introduction to this seminar.
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Q: What is Crossroads?
A: It's a nice new internet chatroom specifically designed for moderated discussions.
Q: What is a crossroads?
A: Well ... Duh! ... it's a place where two roads cross.
Q: Cross what? A river?
A: Each other.
Q: Two roads?
A: OK, wise guy! ... two or more roads.
Q: Like city streets?
A: Yes ... No, in a city we would call it an intersection. A crossroads is thought of as being out in the country. It is sometimes the center of a small rural community.
OK ... let's go with that introduction. I'll ask "What is a road?" some other time.
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Ben< QUESTION 1: What can you do at a crossroads? YOUR TURN
LEGS< Well, Ben, you obviously must make a decision.
Awenydd< Meet other people, going other ways.
cassandra< Ben - you can change the direction you are going in - if you want to.
StoicOne< One could wait and exchange goods & ideas with passers from all directions.
FRAML< You make a decision to go left, right, or continue on the road. (for starters)
Yopo< Well ... You can stand there for a while, looking first up one road and then another, deciding which direction you want to go ... You know ... Like Tom Hanks was doing at the end of "Cast Away" ...
Awenydd< Good analogy, Yopo. Was thinking the same thing.
alremkin< Change direction or continue as if it wasn't there.
SLIDER< At a crossroads you can stay where you are or go back where you came from or take one of three different directions.
selki< I would agree that you have to make a decision as to which direction you should go. Like life.
Ben< Good responses. Thank you. More?
FRAML< Stay put and build a gas station or motel.
Awenydd< FRAML: or a chat room.
selki< There is a story about Crossroads, a movie called Crossroads in the Missippippi delta land. The place where one would go to wait for the "stranger" to make a deal with one's soul.
Ben< At a place where two roads cross, there are six possibilities: continue in the same direction, stop, turn left, turn right, turn around and go back the way you came, or just keep going around in circles trying to decide which way to go.
StoicOne< You could go off through the woods and make a new road, adding to the crossroads.
Celia< You can watch other people trying to decide which way to go. (A local passtime in my rural community. *G*)
Yopo< In Blues tradition, the Cross Roads is a place where fateful bargains can be struck. Traditionally, the place one can strike a bargain with the devil ... (*S* Couldn't resist mentioning that.)
selki< Yopo: Yes, that's an OLD blues legend.
Spiriti2u< Watch where everyone goes, and take the road less travelled.
Ben< Alright! Good coverage of that question. You-all are thinking.
Ben< QUESTION 2: When is a crossroads an opportunity? YOUR TURN
Spiriti2u< When the road previously on is boring and tiring.
Awenydd< I would say it is always an opportunity, since any choice you make will be different from what you were doing, be it to stop, go straight, left, right, forge a new road, etc.
SLIDER< If the way you came is all washed out and you can't bare the the trudge back over it.
Yopo< Uh, when you notice you're there. Unfortunately, our important Cross Roads aren't always well-marked with a sign ...
Celia< Yopo -- Amen.
Lore< It could be a chance to change one's destination.
alremkin< A crossroad is always an opportunity to change direction.
HereNow< Always. Always.
FRAML< When you have to enlarge your motel due to all the folks stopping before they go on. Perhaps in selling road maps for what lies down each of the roads.
SLIDER< FRAML: When you find a beer garden at the first corner behind the motel.
cassandra< When it points out a direction you want to travel in.
StoicOne< I think the most opportunity would occur when meeting another from somewhere else.
Yopo< StoicOne: Yeah! Talking to someone who just came down the road I'm considering going up might change my mind ...
PeterR< A cross road is in the Sign of a Cross ... Vertical, or Horizontal ... ??
*froggy< When we choose to go ahead or turn away ...
Ben< Good points. I was thinking along the lines of what Spiriti2u said. Or when one is not sure the road one has been following goes anywhere, or goes where one wants to go. Then a crossroads is an opportunity to change directions without just tromping off across the fields.
StoicOne< When you look down all the roads you can see for a distance. When you meet someone, what is in their head is unknown until they speak.
Lore< Is attending this chat, a crossroads?
selki< You can always return to the point of the two intersecting roads, so you can't get lost.
Lore< selki: Maybe.
LEGS< Perhaps the opportunity is simply realizing you are headed in the right direction ... and have made it this far *s*
Lore< LEGS: Right on!
FRAML< LEGS: Perhaps it is a time to decide if the direction you've been traveling is the "right" one or not.
PeterR< ... ? Does that "CrossRoad" have a light or a Stop Sign?? ...
Spiriti2u< You can see down the other directions for a bit and perhaps what is seen is inticing enough to change directions.
SLIDER< When a belief becomes not so believeable, one would find oneself at a crossroads as to which direction to pursue truth -- if truth can be defined.
PeterR< ... Take the "ByePass" Road when in doubt ...
Lore<PeterR: Or seek advice from a trusted source.
LadyV< I think when you come to a crossroads you stop/look/listen first of all.
PeterR< AHHH ... Watch out / Hear out for trains
Ben< Nicely explored! I'll have to re-read these posts slowly to catch all the implications. And I appreciate the unspoken understanding that we're discussing more than just physical crossroads, by analogy.
Ben< QUESTION 3: When is a crossroads a temptation? YOUR TURN
LadyV< Generally, it would be the easy turn ... that would be the temptation ... possibly.
Spiriti2u< When the road looks easier than the one you're on.
Awenydd< When one finds Sliders Beer Garden behind Framls Motel!
Spiriti2u< lol@Awenydd
Lore< When one way seems easier, perhaps.
cassandra< When you think it is an oasis, and you're thirsty, but it is really a mirage.
Ben< cassandra: I like your insight about the mirage.
StoicOne< A crossroad is a temptation when you know where you are at is fine, and the thought crosses that another direction may be better.
Awenydd< Actually there is hidden meaning behind the beer garden and motel comment ...
SLIDER< Awenydd: Can I buy ya one? (S)
Awenydd< SLIDER: Anytime! A little temptation is good for soul.
Lore< Perhaps to rush through if the light's yellow?
PeterR< ... APPLY BRAKES ... Then gun the engine ... Let the dust fly ...
LadyV< Lore: Good one! I feel ...
PeterR< ... WATCH OUT FOR MEANDERING FARM ANIMALS ...
PHEDRA< When is a crossroads a temptation? ... answer ... change can be scary, when one approaches a crossroads you are forced to decide which path, you question sometimes, can I trust myself, is there anyone with whom I can consult as to the best path??? Taking the 1st step, will it be a baby step or a giant leap ... The abyss
LadyV< PHEDRA: Agree ...
PHEDRA< thanks LadyV ... :-)
FRAML< When I decide that I don't want to find anything new and just plant myself, either in a physical place (my motel) or remain static in my goals/life.
SLIDER< When one looks too hard for change at the cross roads, the discernment of opportunities may become blured.
isobel< A sidetrack can be a chance to consolidate if we are tired of pressing forward *S*
PeterR< ... IF THE Engine Stops ... Get out & take Polaroids of THE Above UFO ...
PHEDRA< I agree w/peter
alremkin< Q #3 is a little tougher. I'll assume negative connotation to temptation. When we are exposed to something we've been unable to control within ourselves which leads to our focusing on illusion rather than truth. Of course at some time we must overcome our weakness or we can't improve, so even temptation can be an opportunity if we can reach a new level of understanding or being.
Ben< At a crossroads, you may be tempted to stop or turn when you really need to continue in the same direction. Conversely, you may be tempted to continue in the same direction when you really need to stop or turn.
telosian< Crossroads are often subtle, and not recognized until after crossed.
LadyV< telosian: Yes ... you are right ... and sometimes too late we recognize them ...
telosian< LadyV: You're right also, that's happened many times with me.
Yopo< The Cross Roads is a temptation when we have a clear destination in mind, but find ourselves invited to turn down a road we know is going to take us elsewhere. We might be surrendering a higher goal for a less worthy one ...
Ben< Yopo, well said.
selki< Yopo, I agree
Lore< Yopo: Indeed!
FRAML< Yopo: Or we can change for a higher, less easy road than the one we are on.
Yopo< FRAML: *S* I was just thinking about that. We might be tempted to leave the wrong road by a waiting angel ... *S*
Lore< But what if the signs are wrong?
PHEDRA< and the child looked up into the eyes of the Master and asked, "But how will we Know?"
PeterR< A. Einstein once almost said ... "When stuck @ Cross Roads, get a horse", or was that Lao Tzu ? ... AA
FRAML< But what if there are no signs at the crossroads telling what lies ahead along each one?
HereNow< Be radical.
PeterR< "No Signs" equals Free for All ... That's the way I was raised ...
Awenydd< FRAML: eeny meenie miney moe, it's my path so here I go.
FRAML< Whoops. That was a rhetorical question, not trying to start a different thread.
telosian< Ben: Do you ever say, "I'm gonna have to flip a coin on this path to choose, 'cause I don't KNOW"??
selki< I don't know, I can see where life is like crossroads. We begin our journey at one specific point and whichever road we take may lead to another set of crossroads. There are right turns and left turns, and we don't know if we made the wise turn until we travel on down the road a little bit further. Sometimes we wish we had taken a right when we've gone straight, sometimes we have regrets and try to go back to correct them, sometimes it's too late, and we have to trudge on in hopes of coming to another crossroad in life and in hopes of making the best decision in the direction we take.
Mysteria< I think you should just sit in the center of the roads. Sit and surrender. It seems to me that Spirit has brought you to this place, presented a crossroads for the express purpose of getting you to stop the incessant internal struggle. To just stop and sit, you will shown which way to continue. But, in truth, it doesn't matter which road is chosen. All eventually lead Home, back to Spirit. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
PHEDRA< Well said, Mysteria.
selki< ***changes the signs at the crossroads***
Ben< The next (and last) question has been addressed to some extent, but I'll post it so we can focus on it.
Ben< QUESTION 4: Who might you meet at a crossroads? YOUR TURN
PeterR< ... horse & donkey ...
Spiriti2u< I could meet myself,
LadyV< Spirit2u: I agree ...
SLIDER< Ben --- I always tend to test the water before I plunge in, can't say the same for a lot of folk, so I figure someone should stay at the crossroads for a while and kinda help folks along. Thanks for the job you're doing.
FRAML< FRAML the innkeeper & SLIDER the Beer Garten Meister. And the temptations they provide.
SLIDER< FRAML -- There ya go bringing up the prospect of discerning who to listen to (the bar keep or the inn master).
Awenydd< SLIDER: don't forget the bar wenches!
SLIDER< Awenydd: OK but they listen more than talk! LOL
Yopo< *S* We've already mentioned the devil and an angel. The most likely encounters would seem to be with other travelers, though. A good place to discuss journeys and pathways ...
alremkin< It seems to me we are more likely to meet those who can help or hinder us at crossroads.
Lore< More traffic, perhaps, and a chance to let others go thru.
Mysteria< It seems to me that to sit and surrender to "Thy Will not mine" is, perhaps, the best course of action/non-action.
telosian< Mysteria: that would depend on whether you are traveling to a destination specifically, or is the emphasis more on the journey itself and lessons learned.
Mysteria< telosian: I wasn't aware that there was any destination other than Home.
telosian< Mysteria: to me ... stands in the middle of a crossroads, hand sweeps to point out the vastness of the universe ... ALL is home ...
Mysteria< telosian: Yes. That is why I suggest that it doesn't matter what road one takes, one is already there, within. The outer is just to experience all the vastness.
telosian< Mysteria: I agree, but I think that there may be basically two different reasons people negotiate crossroads. To those that have a destination in mind, a crossroads demonstrates place of desision and even sometimes obstacle ... but for the wonderer, traveler, pilgrim or knowledge seeker, a cross roads can be a nexus of information and a place where curiosity can accumulate. That is why cities are made there.
Mysteria< telosian: Oh.
Awenydd< As some mentioned earlier, one might meet the Devil, an Angel, or ones self. I think the answer to who one meets may lie in the path from which one has come, and where they want to go.
PHEDRA< I say you meet death at the crossroads, not physical death but death of the old making way for the new, even if like you said it is a new deternimation to stay on your current path ... like the death card in the Tarot.
LadyV< PHEDRA: and that would take courage to face ...
selki< PHEDRA: yeah, that's what I was thinking to myself, death of the old to make way for the new. Perhaps a point to let go of the past to go on to the future.
Lore< It could be lonely, if the roads are not well traveled.
PHEDRA< likely, but not for certain ... sometimes you must stand alone, just you & the universe.
Spiriti2u< a lone traveller is an experience without restrictions
PHEDRA< yes, Spirit2u ... *s*
cassandra< You meet the inner self. The Spirit within that gives you the answer -- if you ask and if you listen.
Lore< On the other hand, one could meet a friend or two and possibly a few strangers as well.
LEGS< Perhaps it isn't the new one you meet, but the one/ones with whom your travels are now shared ... an eyeopener as to whether you will go forward with the new person/persons or continue with the old ... or perhaps combine the journey ??
Yopo< LEGS: Good point. It is at the Cross Roads that we meet new companions, and at the Cross Roads that we sometimes part ...
Spiriti2u< To tell the others from the road you came, and they can continue their destination as well from where you came.
StoicOne< I am most likely to meet those from other directions who possess wisdom of what lies behind them but before me -- if I choose the direction they came from.
Ben< You might meet people who are like you, and people who aren't like you. Depending on your point of view, you might see them as friends and neighbors, or local rubes, or city slickers. In any case, you might meet strangers, foreigners, traveling salesmen, or itinerant preachers.
QIM< God is the traffic cop. Hi folks, sorry for coming in late.
FROTHY< I DONT KNOW HOW I GOT PAST THE BOUNCER
PeterR< DER FROTHY IST HERE!!!
QIM< Frothy is our Holy Fool
PeterR< IF Jesus came here & was confronted with a "Cross Roads" what path would HE/She take???
alremkin< PeterR: Whichever path he took would be called the way.
FROTHY< PETER: JESUS WAS A BIT OF A REBEL ... I DONT KNOW IF HE WOULD LAST IN HERE
Ben< FROTHY: If you are willing to abide by the rules of courtesy, you are welcome here.
FROTHY< BEN: A CONDITIONARY WELCOME ... HOW SWEET
QIM< Frothy, be a good boy. QIM slaps Frothy's caps
PeterR< POOP! THEY HUNG ME DOWN ... UPSIDE DOWN ... TRUE ...
QIM< Frothy, did Jesus use caps?
FROTHY< QIM: OH HE WAS A CAPS MAN ... CAUSED ALL SORTS OF TROUBLE WITH THAT
telosian< looks at FROTHY with a silly grin ... *chuckle*
Ben< At a crossroads, you are likely to meet someone who wants to tell you which way to go.
Awenydd< Ben, and some even use caps! *G* Welcome, Frothy.
StoicOne< If someone wants to TELL me where to go -- I am inclined to think that person wants power over me.
Yopo< StoicOne: I most often tend to react that way too. I do better with a map than with orders. At least, I THINK I do ...
telosian< Ben: should you rely on that person's direction ... or rely on what YOU direct for yourself?
FROTHY< BEN: DO I HAVE TO KISS ANYONES RING?
PHEDRA< frothy, he did not say he was Potentate Ben.
Ben< FROTHY: Hah! No, no ring-kissing is required here.
PeterR< Kan't stand bailing Der Frothy out of Jail no-more ...
SLIDER< A true seeker will find a crossroads at every turn, for all is a new experience, recognizing the path for what it is, is what we all should strive for.
Lore< SLIDER: Well said.
Yopo< One of the signs on the signpost says: "THIS WAY TO THE CLIFF". *S* It is good to read signs ...
SLIDER< Yopo: Signs are good, especially if they show what we can understand.
Ben< ALL: This is the end of the scheduled hour. I'll mute the room while I post my closing comments, and then open it again for discussion, hopefully on this same topic.
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WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY -- crossroads : a place where two or more roads intersect, often the site of a rural settlement; (b) any center of congregation, activity, etc., for a widespread area; (c) a time in which important changes occur or major decisions must be made [can be made].
I amended Webster's definition to read "can be made" because major decisions do not have to be made at a crossroads. One can decide to continue in the same direction. That is the difference between a crossroads and a "T" or "Y" intersection.
CLOSING COMMENT: In this high-speed age of the automobile, we very seldom stop at a crossroads to talk with anyone. That is why we need this Crossroads.
-------------------------
Spiriti2u< Thanks Ben
FROTHY< *STANDS AT THE CROSSROADS* HMMM THIS WAY IS ONLY LIGHTLY MODERATED BUT NO FUNKY TEXT ... NOW THIS WAY IS HEAVILY MODERATED BUT VERY PRETTY ... NOW THIS WAY ISN'T MODERATED AT ALL, BUT EMPTY ... *SIGH* WHERES THE HENGE SIGN POST?
Myalba< swc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
StoicOne< FROTHY: are we confused?
The_Magus< FROTHY: it's in the Twilight Zone. LOL // Ben: of course we need this crossroads. In this age of technological communication, we don't talk anymore, and need places like this to do so.
Lore<The_Magus: It is sometimes helpful to interact with others, rather than just listening, for sometimes thereby we inspire subjects and ideas we would not have had otherwise.
The_Magus< Lore: that's very true. But so many are afraid to do so. They're afraid of the embarrassment that someone will disagree and tell them they're wrong, or worse, cuss them out and swear at them.
SLIDER< Thank goodness for beer gardens. LOL
StoicOne< thank you Ben, this was enlightening.
Awenydd< Frothy, maybe you should erect a new 'henge?
FROTHY< MIKE: NOW DONT GET TESTY ... THATS AGAINST THE RULES
telosian< Ben: first class topic. Raises one of FRAML's beers to you ... a TOAST for Ben's acuity ... hear hear ...
LEGS< {*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*Ben*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*} thank you dearheart for making us think, for being here, for your careful preparations so that the seminar would be beneficial to us each in our own way ... ((((((((MaryHugs)))))))))
Myalba< We all really love this place, otherwise we would be ... elsewhere ;-o)-
FROTHY< MYALBA: I COME FOR KING DAVID'S SERMONS AND ENERGIE'S UPLIFTING MESSAGE OF HOPE
Myalba< hehe, right, FROTHY
Spiriti2u< Frothy, yea that ye are healed
QIM< Frothy has good taste. That will help you at the crossroads Froth. Thanks Ben
The_Magus< FROTHY: you missed KD's pontifications. He came out from his balcony on the Casa Rosada this afternoon. ;-D
Spiriti2u< The_Magus: I'll have to check the review, wouldn't want to have missed that ... yeah right.
FROTHY< OH DID I MISS KD FLAGELLATING? OR IS THAT GENUFLECTING?
The_Magus< FROTHY: well, neither. Nobody would either flagellate or genuflect, and therefore he considered us "inferior".
FRAML< I wonder why some think that all spiritual roads lead to the same place ... sort of a version of "all roads lead to Rome," yet that is not literally true.
QIM< That's true FRAML, but without Rome, the roads get a little rough.
Ben< FRAML: Apparently there was a time when all roads led to Rome -- because the Romans built the roads. Everyone else was still following unimproved tracks and trails.
FRAML< Ben: but when you are in Rome, all roads lead away from it. And where did the roads to Rome in Britain lead to? The ocean.
Yopo< Ben: Yeah, but when the Vandals hit town, all roads suddenly lead OUT of Rome, I betcha ... *hehe*
Ben< FRAML & Yopo: Yes. Even at the height of the Roman Empire, some roads didn't lead to Rome. And any road leads two ways. Excellent points. Thank you.
QIM< The Mongols were able to get around better because of Rome's roads. Empires are temporary and ultimately fragile, one man can bring them down.
Spiriti2u< thinkin about that fiddle while it burned
FRAML< Ben: Good opening seminar for Cross Roads.
GypsyMage< Ben: because of the time in which we live, no one really stops at a crossroads ... unless there is a traffic sign or light ... or a filling station ... etc ... however; we do have crossroads for which we need to be aware that they are there in front of us!
SLIDER< Ben: Would you hold another session on recognizing a crossroads (allegorically) in the future?
[Ben< GypsyMage & SLIDER: How to recognize a crossroads. Good topic potential.]
telosian< walks to Awenydd: this is a nice forum. I bet I remember the event early on at Trail Head that inspired the thought ...
Awenydd< *G* telosian: Actually the idea for Cross-Roads was born before Trail Head ... but some details were defined in there.
telosian< Awenydd: it works out well and Ben did a good job of utilizing it ...
Awenydd< Yes, great job tonight Ben. // TO ALL: you can schedule your own discussions in here, email me with the details and we'll post them.
Ben< ALL: I plan to do another session on this topic next week. Probably with a couple of scenarios.
Celia< Thanks, Ben. Another session would be helpful. I'll be thinking about this one in the meantime.
SLIDER< Ben: that sounds like a good plan. Will you be on a weekly schedual or post times at the end of each session?
Ben< SLIDER: Same time next Saturday night. These seminars will stay at the same time of evening/night. Whether we are having one will be posted on the allpathways.com home page.
Yopo< Ben: *G* Yes, indeed! The designated time and place must be made these days. As it has been here. Thank you! I believe much will be given and much will be received by all the folks who pass through Cross Roads in times to come ...
Awenydd< Scheduled discussions, including Ben's, are also posted on the front page of Cross-Roads where you accept the rules.
greyman< Good session Ben. Mrs. greyman needs to see this.
FireEagle< missed the whole thing ... sorry was watching MIB ... BUT I did take the road less traveled this week ... and rambled thru the countryside of upper Virginia :)
alremkin< Ben: One thought that came to me about this is that there are many times I've been at crossroads and not known it. Thinking later, "How did I get here"?
Ben< alremkin: Good point. Sometimes we only see a crossroads in the rear-view mirror. Or when the strobe light flashes so the cops' radar camera gets a photo.
kezia< the cross-road also brings to mind the symbolism of the proverbial "nailed to a cross"-- which can be the moment when you lose your life to find it -- the cross as the plus sign or moment of truth.
PHEDRA< kezia ... hummm, food for thought ... a bit sour to taste methinks ...
kezia< it appears that the known world is at a major crossroads.
QIM< kezia, it sure does appear that way, plus a great preponderance of spiritual types agree it is, many more than in other times. Something's afoot alright.
Ben< /mesdg Awenydd I'll look for the posts in Review and download them tomorrow.
FROTHY< /mesdg satan I'M DOING THE BEST I CAN NOW GET OFF MY BACK
Spiriti2u< FROTHY: he needs a ride through the crossroads
FROTHY< DAMN
PHEDRA< FROTHY ... bad, FROTHY ... **S**
LEGS< Hint: if someone's posts bother you, /ignore them ... that eliminates their posts from your screen and you don't have to see their interruptions ...
FROTHY< THERE ARE NO CROSSROADS ... TIME IS AN ILLUSION ... THERE IS NO WILL OR FREE CHOICE ... IT ONLY APPEARS THAT WAY ... THERE IS ONLY THE ONE WILL AND THE ETERNAL NOW ... THE CROSSROADS ARE FOR THE VEHICLE ... THEY KEEP IT BUSY WHILE THE TRUE SELF LIVES OUT THAT ONE TRUE WILL ... LET THOSE THAT HAVE EARS ...
Spiriti2u< wiggle them
QIM< HEAR ...
StoicOne< Follow in the path of Van Gogh
FROTHY< ARTISTS ARE SO FLIGHTY
The_Magus< FROTHY: or depressed ...
[Ben< I normally delete off-topic threads, but decided to keep this one about artists because it eventually came to a point that I consider to be relevant and valid.]
FROTHY< I'M TALKING ABOUT THE MASTERS ... NOT DABBLERS
StoicOne< FROTHY: perhaps artists chose to blaze their own trails. Hence the oft quote "they were ahead of their time". The last Van Gogh to be auctioned off went for several million dollars.
Myalba< YEAH , TRY 35 MILLION
Spiriti2u< Holy Toledo! But that was after he expired. He never knew the millions.
The_Magus< StoicOne and Frothy: they aren't part of the mainstream, because they create the mainstream. Nobody understands them because they're so ahead of everybody else.
StoicOne< The_Magus: agreed
FROTHY< STOIC ONE: ARTISTS ARE NATURAL ADEPTS WITHOUT THE TRAINING AND DISCIPLINE TO ASSIMILATE WHAT THEY PERCEIVE ... THIS IS WHY THEY ALL END UP MAD OR DRUNKS
Awenydd< Good point Frothy, was that a confession?
QIM< Good point, Frothy. Jack London said he preferred being the "meteor burning up in the atmosphere instead of a sleepy planet".
FireEagle< FROTHY: I take exception to that Mad or Drunks? I'll have you know I am Mad Drunk actually.
StoicOne< FROTHY: have you ever read the biography of Van Gogh?
Spiriti2u< He certainly was a passionate fella that Van Gogh.
FROTHY< THE JOB OF THE ARTIST IS TO CONCRETE SPIRITUAL TRUTH ... A VIRTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY AS WORDS AND IMAGES CANNOT CONVEY THEM ... THIS INEVITABLY LEADS THEM TO A LIFE OF MYSTICISM WHERE THEY PUT DOWN THE PEN OR BRUSH ... OR A LIFE OF DESPERATION ... ITS A NO WIN SITUATION REALLY
QIM< FROTHY: Tolstoy is a classic example of that.
FROTHY< DA VINCI WAS AN EXCEPTION BUT HE HAD THE REQUIRED TRAINING
Spiriti2u< Da Vinci also got paid big bucks.
Yopo< FROTHY: Are you familiar with the visionary artist, Alex Grey? He seems to manage to remain both Mystic and Artist. Seems to have merged the two ...
The_Magus< FROTHY: the quest of the artist is to become one with his or her experience as a model. It can be a person, place, thing, or experience, and that creates inspiration, causing the artist to form it as part of creation, fulfilled in display for the public.
StoicOne< FROTHY: the artist has no job. They have a passionate desire, an angst to express.
jim-jones< (((((people)))))
PHEDRA< can anyone spare a small glass of cool-aid???
Spiriti2u< jim-jones ((( kool-aid )))
alremkin< Augustus Stanley Owsley III's electric kool aid?
telosian< passes PHEDRA a pitcher of cherry kool-aide
jim-jones< hello ((spirit))
Spiriti2u< Hi jimmy
PHEDRA< umm, where's the arsenic??
StoicOne< phedra you smell almonds?
FROTHY< THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT THE MASTER ARTIST PERCEIVES THE SPIRITUAL PLANE BUT CANNOT CONVEY IT OR HOLD ONTO IT FOR TOO LONG ... THIS LEADS TO DOUBT AND DEPRESSION ... THEY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE SPIRITUAL IS A FANTASY ... AND THE INEVITABLE FOLLOWS
Lore< FROTHY: Perhaps not if they have just taken the wrong turn!
telosian< FROTHY: (crawls in BETWEEN the CAPS ... hgh ... there) ... I think there might be an evolutionary wave of spiritual artists coming that will paint "telepathically" to the viewers mind.
Spiriti2u< Holy Cow ! an OBE artist.
Myalba< SELF EXPRESSION, THROUGH CREATING
The_Magus< FROTHY: Even the experience itself has its own life span. The creation by the artist never really fits the reality, and that bothers the artist to no end.
Myalba< FROTHY: THE DUAL POWER OF THE CATCH-22 MIND OF MAN ;-O)-
StoicOne< FROTHY: Then you are saying that there is no great art?
FROTHY< STOIC ONE: I AM SAYING THERE IS GREAT ART ... BUT NO GREAT ARTISTS
StoicOne< FROTHY: That is an oxymoron.
Myalba< * VOLTAIRE * DESCARTES * THE BACONS *
Spiriti2u< I'll take the bacons with two eggs sunny side up.
telosian< FROTHY: they might be on the way my friend ... have a beer.
FRAML< Since the continuing discussion of crossroads has ended, I shall say goodnight.
StoicOne< FRAML: Goodnite
FRAML< ****POOOOF****
Lore< FRAML: I'm with you. NAMASTE all.
Spiriti2u< Bye FRAML Bye Lore
SLIDER< Thanks all for a great session. I am parting also. Special Thanks to Ben and Awenydd.
FROTHY< TO BECOME A MASTER THE ARTIST MUST MOVE BEYOND ART ... HENCE NO GREAT ARTISTS ... DA VINCI WAS A MASTER
The_Magus< Myalba: Van Gogh, Mozart, the Bachs.
AugustMoon< Artists are on a whole other plane, unfortunately, misunderstood by many.
The_Magus< AugustMoon: but to be great is to be misunderstood.
AugustMoon< The_Magus: I totally agree.
Myalba< FROTHY IS AN ARTIST
FROTHY< VAN GOGH, MOZART, BEETHOVEN ... YOU WOULDN'T GIVE TWO CENTS FOR THEIR WISDOM ... BUT YOU'D PAY A LOT MORE FOR THEIR MUSIC ... THEY WERE ALL VERY UNBALANCED
[Ben< Here is the relevant point I saw in this discussion. You might meet either local or traveling artists at a crossroads -- musicians, painters, actors, magicians, writers, orators. You can enjoy their art (or not enjoy their art) without taking one of them as your guru, or becoming a groupie, or emulating them, or following the life-style roads they follow. You can observe artists without changing your own direction.]
Ben< ALL: Thank you for an excellent discussion tonight. You really presented the insights and highlighted many and various facets of the questions I posted.
alremkin< Ben: Good night, it's good to see the seminars continue, one of the highlights of the spirit web chats.
greyman< Thank you Ben. Good night all.
Spiriti2u< Ben: I will be looking forward to the next. Try once again!
FROTHY< WHY DOES EVERYONE GET UPSET IF THE CHAT DOESN'T GO AS SCHEDULED ... DID LIFE EVER GO AS SCHEDULED?
telosian< FROTHY: come to the seminar when it's scheduled and ask that again then.
FROTHY< telosian: JUST TELL ME THE NAME SO I CAN DO A LITTLE SURFING
Myalba< FROTHY: TRY GREENE'S CREATIONISM TRUTH FILTER
Yopo< FROTHY: There's a time and a place for everything. Certain sorts of discussions require a certain sort of setting to work well. Nothing more than that ...
FROTHY< YOPO: TIME IS AN ILLUSION ... POSITION IS RELATIVE
Myalba< I SECOND THAT, FROTHY
alremkin< FROTHY: Because there's an energy exchange on higher levels than we normally experience, hence WE are here, lol.
FROTHY< AHHH NIBURU ... THANX ... OFF TO SURF
PHEDRA< timing is everything ... who said time is not real ... FROTHY
AdlerHorst< I thought there was a discussion here tonight. Oh well, just the normal blather.
telosian< AdlerHorst: It already occurred, nice one too.
Spiriti2u< Hi AdlerHorst, and you are welcome to blather right in.
AdlerHorst< Spirit2u: I wasn't wanting blather but good discussion. Unfortunately that doesn't happen when frothy is in the room. He attacks it & people gather to him like moths to a flame.
PHEDRA< so I am a moth am I??? humpf, I say
alremkin< AdlerHorst: Easy to stop that with FROTHY -- don't be the moth.
Spiriti2u< AdlerHorst: No problem. He left to surf. Sorry you missed the discussion. There will be another next Sat. 10 pm. EST.
Celia< Hi Ben! Still around?
Ben< Hi Celia! Yes, I'm still here.
Celia< I was thinking (slowly as usual), a sense of NES&W would be helpful at a crossroads in case the signs are turned around.
PHEDRA< Good point, Celia. You can bring it up next week. I understand same topic next week.
Ben< Celia: That's a very good point. A sense of direction other than and independent of one's own orientation ("turn right" and "turn left") is essential for any long range navigation.
AdlerHorst< Celia: Yes, a good point. H'm spiritually Which way is up?
Ben< ALL: OK, 'tis an hour past the end of the seminar & time for me to rest. Peace and blessings to each of you. *poof*