1 Mar 2003
Ben's Seminar
Angels (Part 3)

Ben : ALL: Tonight is the third of three sessions on the subject of angels. I will post a brief introduction just before each question.

Ben : We have discussed some of the characteristic differences between angels and fallen angels. One of the logical next steps is a two-part question. In your opinion:

Ben : QUESTION 1(a): What do you think might cause an angel to fall? YOUR TURN

LEGS : Temptation to be more than the angel is ... to be god-like ... which is commonly considered to be Lucifer's downfall ... thinking he could do it all better than God ... *sigh*

cassandra : An angel might perhaps get to thinking that God had made the wrong decision.

FRAML : #1: It lost its balance, or tripped over something.

Celia : I'm with LEGS -- self aggrandizement -- although I find the idea that an angel could fall somewhat disconcerting -- or maybe discouraging.

Ben : LEGS: I would define the temptation of arrogance, hubris, as wanting to be god, but not God-like.

LEGS : by saying god-like, I was only thinking of the attendant powers ... not the mercy or wisdom ... just perhaps, as Lucifer did himself ... *s*

FRAML : Is a fallen angel one who had abandoned following God? If so, then I would agree with LEGS. If fallen refers to departing heaven for living on earth, I think the cause would be curiosity or a desire to experience a physical life, but after being here it could be influenced by dark/evil entities and become aligned with them.

Ben : FRAML: Good point. According to scripture and tradition, there are at least two groups of fallen angels. Some angels fell to earth, and some fell farther than earth.

rhiannon : a distaste for dogma

LEGS : I feel that dogma arose in the earthly churches ... never a part of God's cognizance.

rhiannon : all those laws in Leviticus are not god's cognizance??

Ben : rhiannon & LEGS: I hope to avoid dogma in this discussion. That's why I asked for your personal opinions, and offered mine.

FRAML : I don't see human-written "dogma" as affecting whether or not angels fall.

Ben : I think that certain changes of attitude, orientation, purpose, desires, can cause an angel to fall. For example, I believe that pursuing earthly desires can cause an angel to fall from the Light to the earth-plane. And I believe that a change of attitude from benevolent to malevolent can cause an angel to fall from the Light to the darkness.

LEGS : Rather like changing your focus during target practice, Ben? The fall from light to darkness ... anyone, whether angel or earthly being, must protect their focus from dilution and debilitation.

alremkin : #1a. What causes one to fall is losing the intention to follow the inner Divine IAM connection, choosing the illusion or separation.

Afriend : An angel that gives in to being tempted to not follow God's way, perhaps?

Yopo : But I would have thought that an angel would possess a higher moral vision than any human being. Quite a few humans are pretty good at discerning right from wrong, and choosing right. So -- how could an angel get confused about right and wrong? *thinking*

Ben : Yopo: The fallen ones I've met have been lied to, deceived about what is true, false, right, wrong, and believing those lies, were led astray.


Ben : And now for the converse of the previous part of this question. (I'm sure you've been expecting it. *S*)

Ben : QUESTION 1(b): What do you think might cause a fallen angel to rise? YOUR TURN

FRAML : #1b. It has spent time here in this physical plane, and remembers that there is a better place to be, where it came from, and decides it wants to go home.

cassandra : Doing something good for someone else, loving and helping people and coming to the realization of having made a mistake and asking God for forgiveness.

LEGS : perhaps a realization of the difference in living without the light of God????

Celia : Remembering or relearning which way is up?

Afriend : To repent and mend their ways, asking God's forgiveness.

Ben : Afriend: Repent isn't a popular word today, but it means "to re-think, to change one's mind about something." And so, yes, I agree with you.

alremkin : #1b. The most important thing to change one's direction is to change one's intention. So changing intention from separation to Oneness is the key.

Afriend : #1b: They could have been reminded somehow about how it was before they fell and how much better it was then.

FRAML : #1b. And for those who fell past earth, they realized that they were lied to and desired to return home.

Ben : FRAML: Yes. I've met some fallen ones who were ready to change their minds and go Home. And in our last session, FaireMaiden described the same dynamics from her own experience.

Yopo : So something -- or someone -- blocks their view. A sort of moral blindness sets in. Turning to 1(b) then: To rise again would require a clearing of the vision. Seeing through the lie.

Ben : Yopo: Yes. Knowing the truth can clear the vision, allow one to see through the lie, and thus set even fallen angels free.

Yopo : (I will have to give some thought later to what the underlying nature of The Lie might be, and its initial point of origin ... )

Ben : Again, I think that certain changes of attitude, orientation, purpose, desires, can cause a fallen angel to rise. For example, I believe that pursuing earthly desires can cause a fallen angel to rise from the darkness to the earth-plane. And I believe that a change of attitude from malevolent to benevolent can cause a fallen angel to rise from the darkness to the Light.


Ben : We have seen some wonderful angel stories in the first two sessions, but we know of similar cases in which the people involved were not helped by angels. Whenever we see this difference in results, we encounter one of the most difficult questions:

Ben : QUESTION 2: Why do you think angels help some and not others? YOUR TURN

Celia : Sometimes we just don't listen. (My experience anyway.)

FRAML : #2. Angels help those who are prayed for and they can find in this physical realm. Perhaps this plane of the spiritual universe is murky to them and they must be guided to those who need help. Thinking of having a spotlight shined on a person, or someone providing a spiritual ground control approach radar vectoring.

cassandra : Perhaps because the person wanting help wants it for the wrong thing or it will really mean more to the person if it is done by s/he and make them more spiritual in the long run.

alremkin : #2. My understanding is that angels have a certain focus or area of authority. When our vibration or state of being matches or reaches to them, they are able to connect with us easily. Again this is a question of intention on our part, to raise our state of being to touch Divine place holders, angels.

shipel : #2 perhaps because they are following Divine Will.

Afriend : #2 I sense that angels help only when some good can come of it ...

Yopo : Q2. We've raised the possibility that not all angelic beings have good intention. It would be just my luck that one fallen or about to slip would show up in an emergency. *S* But there is also the fact that we most often don't see the full picture. Many good things can come from an event that, taken by itself, seems only tragic. Not being helped might sometimes be a critical link in a chain that leads to a very positive outcome.

FRAML : Yopo: I guess I have the image of angels showing up to help, in those cases are where the stories come from. I think that if you were in trouble and someone else knew about it that they, if connected to the Light, could request and vector unfallen angels to you.

LEGS : Q2. That has been my question now for the last few weeks ... why didn't the guardian angels protect? I have come to the thought that they did act to do all they could, making the best of what human error had set in motion ... but though this helps me cope, it is truly only a theory and a desire to not lament, but to praise.

Ben : Q2. I think rescue-workers (such as firemen, medics and paramedics) provide insight concerning this question. They help everyone they can, without partiality, preference or prejudice. When they don't help, it is because they cannot help in that situation, but we do not know the problems they encounter while trying to do their work.

Yopo : And we shouldn't discount the possibility that they DO help, in even the most tragic and seemingly final situations. We just don't see the help and comfort they bring, because it happens on the other side ...

Ben : Yopo: Good point. Thank you.


Ben : We have seen people doing angel-like work on earth. This leads to another question:

Ben : QUESTION 3: Do you think humans can be angels after they die? If so, what do you think might cause a human to become and remain an angel? YOUR TURN

LEGS : It is my understanding that humans are precluded from being angels ... that we, as men, actually have the upper hand over angels ... and perhaps that is where they cannot help ... when our free will demands the upper hand in any one situation.

Tigerlily : I have just finished reading the posts. Angels are a real focus of mine, though I have to admit it's all curiosity. I don't have book-learnin' kind of knowledge about them. This discussion is great. Would love to get transcripts.

cassandra : It is said that "anything is possible." And I would say that Ted could have acquired angel status from being so loving and giving to me and my children, and helping all the people he could, and loving God with all his heart.

Afriend : Q3. That might be sort of possible, if one were focused sufficiently on following God's will and rejecting earthly temptations and truly desired to serve God by helping others.

FRAML : Q3. I figure that we can at least be apprentice angels. And if one believes in the idea that we came here and gave up our angel status to "play in the mud" then we should be able, with God's grace, to be reinstated. The prodigal son was welcomed home with a feast.

Ben : Afriend & FRAML: Well said. Thank you.

Afriend : FRAML: I like that!

LEGS : I think our availability to be used to help further God's aims to help our fellows, is within our own powers ... We need to consciously and prayerfully volunteer ourselves ... and be as near ready as we can be, to do His bidding.

Celia : I've only read what Ben has said about as-angels. It seems to me that caring would be a key.

Yopo : Q3. I'm not sure about that one. I'm not completely clear on the nature of angels. Whether it is a certain sort of spiritual being with a specific sort of history within the hierarchy, or more of a "job description". You know, "Only the qualified need apply." Not sure. Perhaps angels can become humans, and humans angels ...

alremkin : #3. I think the souls of humans who ascend will be like angels in the next level of existence. Although I'll dodge the question of whether we can be actual angels, as the angelic realm seems to me to be a different type of being in the Divine hierarchy. It seems I've found a mantra in this: Our intention shapes our existence; therefore, choose to be chosen by holding the love of God as our intention.

Tigerlily : I think that it is possible that people who may appear as human are sometimes angels ... I don't think humans are higher than angels or angels higher than humans ... we just have different sets of rules or guidelines.

Ben : Again, I think that certain changes of attitude, orientation, purpose, desires, can cause a human to become and remain an angel. And I believe these three changes are necessary: (1) angel means messenger, so a human must connect to the Source of the messages that are sent through angels; (2) angels are benevolent, so a human must develop unqualified love for others; and (3) angels are immortal, so a human must release his or her earth-binding desires, so as to not be drawn or driven to reincarnate again.


Ben : SUMMARY: Free-willed beings can rise or fall spiritually. Whether they rise or fall or remain where they are depends on their attitude, orientation, intentions, purpose, desires. Angels are benevolent and active. They help everyone they can. But angels are not all-powerful and they are not everywhere in this world at all times. Humans can do angel-like work on earth and continue to serve as angels after they die. This is what some of us want to be when we grow up.

Ben : Setting Topic To: More angel stories and discussion of angels


Ben : ALL: Please feel free to share your own angel stories or discuss anything related to angels. YOUR TURN

greyman : Thank you Ben!

Ben : greyman: You're welcome. *S*

Oceandeep : hello. *S* I didn't know anything about Angels ... but then I started to channel a very big angel called Uriel. He told me that this was my first time on this planet and that I was called Tzadkiel ... I had never heard of these names ever!! ... This is very freaky for me to understand ... He also said that after 78 sun revolutions I would go back to source ... sorry to butt in with an angel story ... but it is past 3 am here in the U.K ...

Oceandeep : So can anyone please tell me if the name means anything to them?  This is so wonderful to talk about ... can't do this over in Trailhead ... My whole house gets filled with white feathers ... I even get them landing on my lap when I'm driving ... I'm used to Uriel ... and have found out all about him ... the archangel of prophecy ... but tzadkiel ... ?????

alremkin : Oceandeep: I feel a special kinship with both Uriel and Zadkiel.

Tigerlily : My mother has degenerative lung disease. She felt unable to quit smoking. After crying out for help from God, she felt an angel in her bedroom at night. There was some sort of guidance or help from the angel. Then the next day she woke up and has not had the desire to smoke since then. That was almost 10 years ago. And although she is on oxygen, she is still alive.

LEGS : {{{{{{{Tiger}}}}}}}}}

Oceandeep : --{{tiger}}-- that is wonderful *VBS*

Tigerlily : I oftentimes get "snippets" of insight or guidance in prayer or meditation. I believe they are angelic messages.

LEGS : I would have to say I believe the same concerning messages I've received ... I regret that I have not always "fully" received some ... at least not so that I knew what they meant until later on ... Now, I am learning to stay in prayer and simply ask for further instructions ... or that I will be led in the right direction to deliver the messages.

Tigerlily : LEGS ... I think the snippets part is good ... because it's more of a relationship or communication. I can spend a year thinking about one message I received. I like that. Eventually a lot of it starts to make sense. One of the reasons I feel they are angelic is because there is usually some higher, loving content involved that eventually makes sense to me. It's like my human personality doesn't "get" it right away.

LEGS : Exactly, Tigerlily ... *s*

Tigerlily : LEGS: I would like to think the angels are helping me in the newsroom. I need A LOT of help there!

Oceandeep : I have been ghost writing for over a year ... then one night I 'felt' the presence of 'something' in my living room ... it was huge ... and I felt like it was ALL very dark ... then he took off his cloak ... and I swear my room filled with THE most whitest of white light ... I started to vibrate ... and asked who this was ... I just picked up my pad ... always to hand ... and wrote Uriel ...

Tigerlily : I have a friend who is very into angels. She makes candles at home that have angelic blessings of some kind. She gave me a candle for a present. It was burning ... I woke up in the middle of the night when it was still burning ... I had a real mystical experience looking at it. It was surrounded by a very beautiful circular halo that looked a little like a cloud or rainbow ... then I heard (from inside) ... "We are very proud of you." ... I had just gotten a job with decent pay in writing after 2 years of freelancing and working to rebuild my life after a divorce.

Oceandeep : For the last year, I also start to vibrate ... then when I least expect it, I will tell someone ... that there is a sadness within them ... I will then tell them all about their families ... past and present ... and help them to start the healing process ... I have done this to people I don't even know ... it happened in the pub ... in the street ... in a cinema house ... at first I was terrified ... but now I know ... and am at ease with this ... I'm not a clairvoyant ... although the word in French means "clear seeing" ...

LEGS : At least, now, I know that it is not just "Holy" gossip that I receive, but that a purpose exists in that, at the very least, I pass the message on to whomever it is meant for ... just as I would not have accepted messages for myself, dismissing them as wistful or wishful thinking, so others do not accept unless it comes from someone who knows nothing of their fervent needs and/or requests of God ...

Oceandeep : --{{LEGS}}-- I understand what you are saying ... because whenever I tell anything to the person involved, they say that it is indeed a message that they needed ... and knew deep down ... *VBS*

Afriend : I find that I must sign off for tonight. Namaste to all!

LEGS : {{{{{{{{{Afriend}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Yopo : G'd night, Afriend *S*

alremkin : Afriend: Namaste.

LEGS : I do hope that I am not posting too much tonite ...

Tigerlily : LEGS ... I don't think you are posting too much.

Ben : Awhile ago, Celia mentioned my writing about as-angels. Actually, it began a long time ago when I was conversing with some discarnates who are wiser and kinder and more gracious than I am. I asked them: Are you angels? And received the reply "As angels." What's the difference between you and angels? "The angels did not fall. We did, but we have risen again." This is where my understanding began, that "as-angels" are ex-human beings who have risen to the Light and continue to serve as angels.

LEGS : ((((((((Ben))))))))))))

Tigerlily : Ben: In our prayer and requests, can we ask that we only receive messages from angels that have not fallen or from the as-angels?

Ben : Tigerlily: It does help to ask that we only receive messages from unfallen angels or as-angels, but we still need to be on guard and ready to discern the source of any message because there are pretenders and we do get off-channel sometimes.

Celia : The presence of benevolent discarnates and the presence of angels feels very different to me. Perhaps it's only a matter of degree, but for now, I place angels in a different order.

[Ben : Celia: One reason why the presence of angels or as-angels feels different is because they are connected to and emissaries of a higher order, whereas benevolent discarnates such as helpful guides and relatives are basically working on their own. ]

alremkin : For the first couple of years after I started my personal meditations, I would see the blue sword of Michael when I closed my eyes after staring at my candle for a while to quiet myself as I enter the meditative space. The last few years, I rarely see it, but I've become more involved with different spirit groups, so in a sense I suppose I'm now wielding the sword somewhat.

infinity-seraph : Thy Blue Sword Of Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LEGS : I do want to say that there have only been very few times I have had messages I recognized as such ... and I don't intend to imply that it happens all the time ... *s* I just think it is difficult to know what to do when you receive the message ... ???

Tigerlily : Larkanon, my significant other, feels very strongly that he had a visitation from an angel in human form a few weeks ago. It was really dramatic. The man asked for water, and instead of leading him to the water and helping him directly, my partner just pointed to a water fountain. It's a long story, but four days afterwards it became clear that the whole thing was an exercise in learning more about what is important. If he had this to do over again, he would have dropped what he was doing (at work) and led the man to water and helped him more. He was insensitive. You never know who is going to be an angel in your life.

Yopo : I guess I have no angel stories to share. I have had moments of unusual connection, and perhaps even moments where I have felt a positive intervention into the events of my life, but there was no encounter with a specific personage that seemed to be part of what happened. My "encounters" have been with things that felt personal, but a bit dark; or with things that seemed alive, morally neutral, and non-personal.

Tigerlily : Do you think that there are angels over plants, mountains, atoms?

Yopo : Tigerlily: Some would say there are orders of Elemental Beings, and that they are associated with the natural world and the things in it. Four orders of elementals, associated with earth, air, water, and fire. A hierarchy of spiritual beings within each. It is a slightly different way of looking at things. Perhaps a complementary way ...

Tigerlily : Yopo ... it's an interesting area. I am curious about it.

Yopo : Tigerlily, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it, myself. I think it is just a different lens one can look at the world through. I sometimes feel an energy in certain places, and around certain plants and trees. It feels like a spiritual energy. But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is the energy of a conscious being. I HAVE felt presences in nature, though, that felt interactive on some subtle level.

LEGS : I know that the Bible speaks of legions of angels ... *s*

infinity-seraph : :)

alremkin : Matthew 26:51 Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" 55 At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me."

FRAML : Ben, thanks for the seminar, and to everyone who participated. I enjoyed it. Good night everyone. ****POOOOF****

Celia : Good night FRAML! Count your blessings instead of those pesky sheep. :)

Yopo : Good night, FRAML *S*

Ben : FRAML: You're welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed the seminar and thank you for your inputs. I always regret that I can't respond to everyone's inputs, and usually resist the temptation to reply by inserts when I edit the transcripts.

Oceandeep : good night --{FRAML}}-- *god speed*

LEGS : Thanx for doing this seminar Ben ... ((((((((((Hugs)))))))) When will the three be on your site??? and what URL?????

Ben : LEGS: You're welcome. I'm glad you were here. The first two transcripts are on greyman's site and the third will be there soon. I'll have my site updated soon, also.

Tigerlily : good night you guys ... see you soon

Yopo : 'Bye, Tigerlily *S*

alremkin : Good night Tigerlily

infinity-seraph : so that means its time for me to burn a blue candle.

infinity-seraph : it's lit

Oceandeep : Thank you ALL! You have been very kind ... Ben: It was a shame I got here late ... but a little is better than nothing ... Good night all. *God speed*

alremkin : Good night, Oceandeep

Yopo : Oceandeep *S*

LEGS : nite Oceandeep, sweet dreams

alremkin : Ben: Thank you for taking the time to lead these seminars. Since you normally resist the temptation to reply by inserts, is there anything you wish to say to me now about anything that stands out to you about what I've said?

Ben : alremkin: I appreciate your inputs. They aren't the same "flavor" as anyone else's and that's what I'm looking for. I ask for personal opinions because I want to encourage people to speak for themselves without fear of dogmatic contradiction or ridicule.

infinity-seraph :  LEGS: I would like to get the transcripts from you. I missed everything.

Ben : ALL: Here is the URL for the last couple years of these seminars on greyman's site:

daCrone : Greetings (((Everyone))) ... Thank you, Ben, for the URL ... I was just going to ask for it. *S*

Yopo : Hello, daCrone *S*

daCrone : *S* 'allo back, Yopo ... looks like I have some catch-up reading to do!!

alremkin : infinity-seraph: Do you know that the transcripts are available on greyman's site which is linked to Ben's site? Just click on Ben's name and you'll go to his site.

daCrone : That's even easier, alremkin -- thanks. *S* ... bookmarked the site.

daCrone : must take a cyber walkabout for a bit ...  Blessings, like stars, to light and line your paths ...

Yopo : 'Bye, daCrone. Happy wandering!

Celia : Thank you, Ben, especially for the succinct reminder of how humans can become angels or at least as-angels.

Ben : Celia: You're welcome, as always. In the Greek text of Luke 20:34-36 Jesus refers to risen humans as "isoangelos" [isaggeloi] which can be translated "as-angels" but literally means "equal-to-angels".

infinity-seraph : iso-angelos ... I like that! So if these people wanted to download computer isos, then that can directly be related to that text. Thanks, Ben! :)

alremkin : Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection."

Ben : alremkin: Yes. I have studied that passage many times and translated it word-for-word. "from the dead" is literally "out of Nekron" which means "the place of the dead" -- in Hebrew, Sheol, in other terminology, the earth-plane or mid-astral twilight zone.

alremkin : Ben: That passage is also why I answered earlier the question about humans becoming angels as becoming like angels.

Ben : alremkin: Yes, as-angels are like angels in all ways but one. The angels did not fall. As-angels did fall, but have risen again and rejoined their brethren. I believe this is what Jesus intends for us.

alremkin : Ben: I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about angels there. Are you saying that all fallen angels rise again?

Ben : alremkin: No, I am not saying that all fallen ones rise again or will rise again. I don't subscribe to that doctrine. I believe it is a matter of repentance; that is, the voluntary re-alignment of one's individual free-will with the universal good-will of God.

alremkin : Ben: Ok, that clears it up then. I thought your earlier statement was ambiguous, but that clears it up and I agree.

Celia : I've read descriptions of powerful light beings that match my own limited experience in some ways, yet differ significantly in other ways. I don't quite know what to make of this. Is it a difference in perception due to cultural/religious orientation, or ... ?

Ben : Celia: Purpose is more important than power. Just because a light being is powerful doesn't mean it is benevolent, and that is what really matters.

Yopo : Celia: My theory is that when we have direct perceptions of non-physical realities, our mind clothes the input with images and symbolism that we have available to us. I think there is something in the brain that creates the overlay. When we are awake, it does that with the input from our senses. When we are out of touch with our senses, it does that to input from elsewhere. So cultural conditioning, religious belief, etc, all help give shape to what comes to us. I think of these things as the lenses that help create the image ...

LEGS : Nitey nite all ... sleepy tonite ... *S* enjoyed the seminar ...  ((((((RoomHugs))))))

Yopo : Good night, LEGS *S* Feeling a bit sleepy myself ...

Celia : Nite, nite LEGS! Love and many hugs!!

alremkin : Good night to those leaving.

Ben : Setting Topic To: Please continue to bless this room, all ye who enter here

Yopo : I think I will drift over toward Trailhead to say hi to a few folks, then call it a night. Thanks for the seminar tonight, Ben. As usual, I've got some stuff to think about. A very good night to you! *S* Blessings, ALL!

Celia : Yopo: I once thought I could get to the bottom of this issue by practicing zazen at SF Zen Center. Lost my focus, though. :)

alremkin : Celia: The bottom of which issue?

Celia : alremkin: The nature of perception; the nature of reality. (Did I really say that? Must be time for bed.)

Yopo : Celia: Focus comes and goes with me. There are distractions. It always returns, though. *S* Later!

Celia : Oh, oh! Lost Yopo AND my focus!

alremkin : Celia: Sounds to me like it's time for more discussion, lol.

Ben : Yopo: You might be interested in a telepathy experiment I did with a group. I silently transmitted the word "watermelon." Later, when I went around the group asking what they perceived, some said they got nothing. A few got the word "watermelon." Some got a mental image of something green and red, etc. One lady got the word "sandia." I asked her if English was her native language. She said, "No. Spanish." And of course, sandia is Spanish for melon. So, each person's mind clothed my transmitted thought in its own recognizable terms. I think this is also an insight as to how discarnate communication works.

Yopo : Ben: And now I've got something ELSE to think about ... *S*

Awenydd : Ben: That is fairly common knowledge/theory ... that the spirit speaks in pictures or something like that, not words ... I have heard of this time and time again.

[Ben: Awenydd: Yes, I also had heard of this theory -- that the spirit speaks in pictures or something like that, not words. That's why I did the experiment, to test the theory. I was a little surprised at how true this theory turned out to be.]

Ben : OK, 'tis time for me to go download the transcript for editing. Adios!

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