FRAML< For those interested in why I picked this topic, click on my name and read "Sgt. Odem" (listed under "my content"). [http://members.tripod.com/FRAML/id20.htm]

greyman< Kemosabie and me, sitting on plateau, cool starlit night, coyote sing to moon. Spirits dance in moonlight. -- ohhh, wait -- you don't mean Apache memories. :o]

daCrone< Evening Greetings. *s* I am looking forward to this discussion as I have much to learn.

suitESPirit< Hi there, daCrone. Hope you are well. I am also looking forward to it ... one of my favorite subjects ... (I have much to learn also).

Ernie< Got me self in the wrong room. I'm rollin' in dried bay leave. Cain't see what ima doin ... got em in my eyes ... need them leaves they say ... ain't takin any chance with the bugs around ... ok sorry folks ... go head on fellers and ladies ... and i beg your pardon fer butten in ...

daCrone< Ernie: Bay leaves in your eyes? eeee! // suitESPirit: I am fine and dandy and working on getting rid of this cold that is trying to set in. *S*

FRAML< Ernie: We will be having a seminar on the posted topic in 10 minutes. You are welcome to stay and participate.

Ernie< this must be where the edjacated ones are ... leaves me out.

FRAML< Ernie: Nope, stay if you wish.

Ernie< You folks know what a carnate is? I shake your hand for askin, FRAML, but mam ... don't now if i know bout this seminar. dont wanna look dumb ...

daCrone< Ernie ... dumb isn't a consideration. *S*

Halfdan< Hello. What is a discarnate attachee memory ?

Ernie< I think i got it ... this here is a guessin game ... well i kin do that ... even a dum bell kin do that.

FRAML< Halfdan: It is the memory that a discarnate spirit, also known as a ghost, has. It attaches to a person and the person picks up the memories.

Halfdan< OH, this is going to be interesting then, maybe ... thanks for explaining that.

Ernie< well framl that does say somthin ... a dude kin pick up a discarnate and i git to think it?

FRAML< Hello, VenusRose.

VenusRose< eeekkk! I have been spotted!!! hehehe hello FRAML ... how are you tonight?

FRAML< VenusRose: I'm doing well.

suitESPirit< Hi there, FRAML. Glad to be here tonight. Very interesting subject.

FRAML< suitESPirit: I'll explain in the set-up why I chose it.

elevaphoenix< Namaste, loving lightbeings!!!!! ^*^*^*^*^*twinkle^*^*^*^*^*^

VenusRose< Hey, Hey, eleva ... *VBG* Greetings!

daCrone< eleva, I am glad you are here. *S*

FRAML< Seminar Concept -- These seminars are open to anyone who wants to attend. Each seminar will explore a stated topic. Each meeting will be a one hour guided discussion, followed by unguided discussion of the topic. There will be no fees or other charges, no grading system, and no predetermined "school solution." Selected portions of the meeting transcripts will be posted on this site -- but not if they contain a statement such as "off the record".

FRAML< Seminar Groundrules -- Courtesy is expected. Instead of attacking what others believe, say what you believe -- or politely ask others to explain what they post. Please keep your posts reasonably brief, and please don't get into off-topic side conversations. Please use the private message function to send greetings to new arrivals and to "whisper" in class once it starts. That way the text is easier for everyone to follow, and it is easier for me to clean up the transcript afterward.

Ernie< didnt know a ghost kin play guessen games ...

FRAML< Ernie -- Not a guessing game. Read the concept and ground rules. I'll provide a set-up scenario and then ask 3 questions.

Ernie< now that is mighty fine of you FRAML. if i don't git a grade then ill play ... where i come from ya git beat if ya git bad grades ... papa gives ya what fer iffin you git bad grades.

elevaphoenix< *takes her seat, and opens her notebook, takes out her ballpoint pen*

FRAML< We start in 1 minute.

VenusRose< popcorn ... get your popcorn here ... coffee, nuts, candy ... get your snacks here ...

Ernie< waht a find lady you are Rosie. i sure like candy and popcorn is good too. thank ya mam

Sprinkles< Greetings, Everyone. *S*

elevaphoenix< {{{VenusRose}}}*VBS*, {{{daCrone}}}*VBS*, {{{FRAML}}}*VBS*, {{{Ernie}}}*VBS*

guitarist< Hey, hey, everybody! (taking a seat next to elevaphoenix).

elevaphoenix< (Gonna have to save the rest of my hugs for later.) *Taking her seat again.*

FRAML< Opening Statement: I have always felt as if World War II was "my war" and that I should have been in it, but was born to late (1947) for it. Even during the Vietnam war I had a connection to wanting to have fought in WWII. I did not have a political or moral objection against the Vietnam war, just a 'knowing' that it wasn't the war that I was 'born' to fight in. World War II was. In 1970 my interest narrowed from World War II in general to being interested in the Battle of the Bulge, which began 56 years ago today. I began reading all the books I could find on it. When I was assigned to Germany, I knew I needed to visit the battle sites in the Ardennes Forest where the 'Bulge' took place. During a visit there in 1978 I 'knew' there was something or some location that I needed to find. I also knew that it wasn't near Bastogne, Belgium, but in the northern part of the battle area.

FRAML< During several visits to the region during my 2nd tour in Germany (1983-87) I visited the Ardennes several times. During the visits I literally walked portions of the battlefield, studying the positions and how the engagements were fought. In several areas I sensed that I was in familiar surroundings, even after I determined that I had NOT seen photos of them in the various books I have read. The area around Malmedy was one of the locations that kept my interest. During 1994 I began to wonder if these were memories of a past life or if I had a ghost of a dead soldier attached to me and that he was giving me his memories so as to take care of unfinished business. These are the reasons for tonight's seminar. (See also: Sgt. Odem on my website)

VenusRose< FRAML: My boyfriend says the exact same thing ... so does that mean that if he was there as well, so was I in some sort of manner?

FRAML< VenusRose: I don't know. We can discuss that in the 2nd hour.

DestinyB< Good Evening Everyone!

FRAML< Question 1. What would indicators be that one's memories are from a life that you had lived before, and why?

elevaphoenix< FRAML: Are these questions rhetorical? Or would you like student responses?

CalicoHawk< Simple, FRAML ... A memory from a past life appears just as a memory from the current childhood would. Vivid, without prior knowledge, such as reading everything you could about the incident.

guitarist< FRAML: I wouldn't know, since none of my experience so far has indicated that I lived before.

VenusRose< FRAML: Would it make sense to say that along with the memories there is a melancholy emotion associated with it or even heavy familiarity?

FRAML< VenusRose: Why do you think that makes sense?

VenusRose< FRAML: I don't think you can have just a simple memory of such an occasion ... there has to be something eerily familiar about it in order for you to wonder if it was "yours".

FRAML< VenusRose: Do you have an example you could share with us?

VenusRose< I had an experience a while ago that made me consider past lives seriously. I do not know much about them as I know I am a young soul ... but I was at a bus stop talking to a young lady about my age and all of a sudden like a flash of light I took upon my self a role that was not "me". I was shaken for an instant and tried to get out of the role, but I could not release it ... everything just clicked. It was really weird, like we knew each other very, very well ... in a past life.

FRAML< VenusRose: I have heard that type of experience from others.

Ernie< now i git it Frmll. i know that doc was a bit carzy when he told mama i was skisso when i was fighter etheree there them ghosts musta got me and done the thinkin. i kin read peoples mines sometimes and they say i am cracz ... a sure am glad i stuck around and hear you. now a am wondering about stuff here. and in the shed.

sarahh< FRAML: Why don't you try past life regression and see if you can conjure up that life? I've had it work for me. It is a very fascinating experience.

FRAML< sarahh: What led you to think that you had a past life? What was it about your memories that made you think that it just wasn't your imagination? (This is a variant on my 1st question.)

sarahh< FRAML: I have had many psychic experiences. Some have been about past lives. Once it happened in a dream. I was also in a battle. A few times, I did past life regression. When it happens, you know it's real. You see it -- just like a movie.

elevaphoenix< I'd say a strong feeling of interest, and a strong feeling either positive or negative. A sense of being "drawn" or "pulled".

VenusRose< I agree with eleva ...

Sprinkles< Being drawn to interests of time, hobbies, a way of life, people, smells locations, all to which you cannot recall having a contact of such in this life time, but the familiarity is strong. (IMHO) *S*

Halfdan< I guess if you feel YOU have EXPERIENCED the memories you have access to, you may have lived that life before ?

suitESPirit< FRAML: In this lifetime, do you have any unusual birthmarks, scars, on your body ... mainly on your back?

guitarist< But, I would imagine that indicators of a past life would be similar to those of an attachee, especially a human one. I have had some experience with finding those. CalicoHawk's comment, above, seems to fit my understanding of both. The question would be, how can one tell the difference between them? :)

Ragnar< Where the freak is Ben?

FRAML< Ragnar: Ben is taking some time off.

happiepamper< hi

sarahh< happiepamper: Your name instantly made me smile.

DestinyB< Keen interest in a place and time and recognition of places unvisited before could indicate past life memories.

sarahh< I think that FRAML's experience is similar to when one meets someone for the first time and both people feel that they have known each other before. There is an instant overwhelming attraction ... doesn't have to be physical.

CalicoHawk< It is also possible that we share the memories of other Spirits while in the realm of the All That Is. These memories would also seem as real to us.

elevaphoenix< From my own experiences, there are little incidents from our childhood that we remember more vividly than others ... and dreams. I dreamed of ALL of the ways I died (at least all the ones I've found so far) ... and even sayings that we have ... repetitive images ...

suitESPirit< FRAML: I think past life regression for you would answer a lot of your own personal questions. It is fantastic!

daCrone< The memories I have of items -- not necessarily events in total -- seem to point to past lives. I have considered these memory flashes may be my creative imagination ... my reason for suspecting past lives is the emotion connected with them. Memories of events, on the other hand, present a fuller story ... in fact, they involve successive generations. I suspect in this instance a combination of past lives and thought forms from others ... as if I can witness what happened ... the emotional response is not the same with the thought forms.

DestinyB< daCrone: What sort of items do you remember? Can't say I've heard of that before.

daCrone< DestinyB: There are two types -- memory flashes and stories. The memory flashes are swift -- they involve battles with axes and those balls swung on sticks. The stories are just that -- events from lives. At first I thought I was writing a story or play ... these seem to span generations so I am thinking I am 'remembering' what happened to others ... there is one that might be mine but I am not yet certain.

sarahh< DestinyB: Haven't you heard of the theory of Genetic Memory?

DestinyB< Yes, sarahh, I'm familiar with genetic memory. What I experience is past life memories.

CalicoHawk< I remember sitting in front of a fire while singing my death song. Hawk of Many Colors was at my side. I remember being curled up next to a fence, hoping the enemy would think I was dead. It didn't work.

greyman< FRAML: I have a lot of 19th century images of San Francisco. I go on business trips there from time to time and the hair on the back of my head goes on end whenever I visit new places during my recreation hours. Sometimes I can see a split screen of modern and 19th century San Francisco. It leaves me with the same strange feeling every time: emotional letdown -- so this is progress. The first time it hit me, I was looking (in the 20th century) down Russian Hill to the bay with a 19th century memory. Tall ships and townhouses with flowers planted everywhere. I shook my head and the townhouses were different (not made of redwood but of brick) and the tall ships were gone (modern cruise ships moored at the piers instead).

Sprinkles< FRAML: I had a past life reading, and it was done by one who did not know me at the time. But what was told was fascinating and the contents all were connected to the way I live now and the things that I do. I was told I had lived many lives, and in the lives that were pointed out to me, brought me to a better understanding of my life and how it is conducted now. It was indeed very enlightening. *S*

elevaphoenix< I've done past life regression hypnotherapy. And either there really IS something to this ... OR ... I am the most BRILLIANT person you have ever met, and I started laying out clues to a false premise when I was TWO YEARS OLD!!!!!

LEGS< The flashbacks that I have had were also like stepping out of the moment and into the other "living time" with no awareness of myself now while in that 'time' ... but have been triggered by different things ... a native stone scraper, a question on the internet from a chatter, one regression that netted the regressionist no answers but played a long time in my flashback ... he just didn't ask the questions that would allow me to tell what I was seeing.

FRAML< For those of you who have had Past Life Regressions: Can you pinpoint what it was that made you seek having that done?

suitESPirit< A love of certain spices ... nuts ... foods ... licorice in particular ... smells ... all bring forth memories of former lives.

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I was so curious ... because I had an unaccountable STRONG attraction to special times and places ... and I had all those dreams from when I was about 3 years old ... of various ways I died. I'd go to the breakfast table and tell my parents about my dreams and they'd say "That's nice, dear. Now eat your cereal." I just HAD to follow up those clues. *VBS*

Sprinkles< At the time I received my past life experience, I was attending a parapsychology course and the speaker suggested the lady, and my curiosity of why I was the only child of 12 who was into this.

daCrone< Also, I have memory flashes of medieval life ... mostly unpretty scenes. I avoided renaissance fairs for years because of these. Some others are associated with certain languages -- I'm still out figuring on those. *S*

DestinyB< Interesting, daCrone! Those sound like past life memories to me!

daCrone< DestinyB, I am thinking mostly they are ... the stories I have been researching to see if there are recorded correspondences. If I may ask: how do you recognize past lives?

guitarist< LEGS, DestinyB and others: Do you mean, your experience was like going back in time momentarily?

DestinyB< guitarist & daCrone: I experience my past life memories through self hypnosis regression {Cayce method}, dreams, actual memories, people and place recognition, and once through an out of body experience.

daCrone< Thank you, DestinyB. I have here on my desk info from ARE. *s* May I ask further: do you feel you gain insight for this life from what you experience?

DestinyB< Yes, daCrone, I feel I have gained much insight into this life because of information gleaned from the experiences, especially in relation to people in my lives who are present in this one, too.

elevaphoenix< And then, you know, there are those INTENSE and SHORT relationships that just seem to go SUPERNOVA, and you wonder afterwards "What the HELL was THAT all about?" I have found that it was karmic balancing, and the reason that they were so short was ... once the balancing had been done, it was over ... no need to continue ... on to the rest of our lives. *VBG*

FRAML< Question 2. How can you discern that memories you have of events of the past are those of a discarnate (ghost) who has attached himself to you, and why? (i.e. not a memory of a past life)

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I have relived the lives. Been there, done that. BEEN a ghost. I have NO reason to suspect that ANY of it is due to any SPIRITUAL ENTITY other than myself.

Halfdan< FRAML: Again I think it is essential whether you feel YOU have EXPERIENCED these events/memories or not.

slider< FRAML: I've had some of those experiences, and I feel when I am looking at my self watching what is happening, it may be through an entity I have shared close time with. And if I feel it is a vision through my own eyes and inner self, then it is more likely my own experience.

Halfdan< I think the difference is much like if you remember the names of a place you have seen in a movie, as opposed to having actually been in that place, maybe you lived there for a while and instinctively know where you are without having to rely on a reference available to you only when employing conscious thought.

CalicoHawk< FRAML: I am unfamiliar with the theory of having another entity's memories interfering with the intellect of an incarnate.

FRAML< CalicoHawk: If you take a peek at the story "Sgt. Odem" on my site, you will get a quick explanation. Basically, the spirit/soul/ghost of a dead person attaches itself to a person who is alive, and then imposes its memories on the person.

suitESPirit< Do you feel this is what's happened to you, FRAML????

CalicoHawk< FRAML: I have witnessed other entities interfering with the actions of incarnates. The alcoholic who quit drinking immediately after being rid of the 'hitchhiker', but this person knew of no memories other than his own.

FRAML< CalicoHawk: That is one sign of an attachee.

CalicoHawk< FRAML: I agree. We have all most probably had at least one attachee in our lives. I know, through a friend, of one person who had several dozen spirits attached.

FRAML< CalicoHawk: I've got 2 other stories about discarnates who attached to me: a Shawnee Warrior, and a bunch of folks from the chapel at the college I attended.

sarahh< FRAML: If the ghost was "attached", then one would be more or less "possessed," wouldn't one? One can carry around good or bad spirits (I've seen a few "attached" to people), but it doesn't seem likely that one would have their memories.

happiepamper< I drink vinegar for losin them ghosts!

sarahh< happiepamper: And miss out on all the fun?

guitarist< sarahh: Would you know it if you'd been having the same thoughts for years and years, and they weren't yours, but someone else's (a discarnate's) thoughts superimposed on yours? I have had this experience and found out only at the beginning of this year what it was.

FRAML< sarahh: Yes, one could say that they were "possessed." What might be signs that you were "possessed"?

sarahh< FRAML: Well, I'm not sure of the "signs." I'll take a guess and say certain personality traits that someone currently exhibits, like moods and such, could be a clue; but, I have seen spirits in people. They have actually "popped" out of people's faces and leered at me. They were very STRONG entities and evil. The people were totally unaware that I saw them.

DestinyB< FRAML: Signs of an attachee could be: change of personality, change in looks, as if another person is in charge of the body in some cases.

CalicoHawk< DestinyB: And in these cases, modern medicine applies Prozac.

FRAML< DestinyB: Slider says it well. It is very difficult. I guess I'd work at eliminating the first two possibilities that we've talked about tonight, and then if this was the one left, I'd examine it.

LEGS< guitarist & FRAML: My story "Whispers" at my ezine describes one such event ... a portion only is written down for the story, which I also thought might have been psychometry because of handling the stone. Other tales have 'happened' that way with other stones from different places ... perhaps it is the ghost or discarnate that is attached to the stone impressing me with the happening ? But this time and 'now' is gone and the flashback may cover long conversations and many scenes that I am living in as a different being, and when something 'jars' me back into the present, sometimes it is only a matter of seconds since I was last aware of the current time.

LEGS< I think that what is the most convincing and at the same time confusing is that I know the total history and likes and dislikes and acquaintances and enemies of the eyes I am seeing through, feel the allegiances and enmities ... does this make sense?

daCrone< LEGS: You mentioned psychometry, and I am wondering if that would be what I am calling thought forms, in a sense, where a place or object sort of opens a doorway into another reality. I am also wondering if the memory flashes would be stories if I allowed them to remain active in memory.

CalicoHawk< daCrone, Are you a writer?

daCrone< CalicoHawk: *S* I have been and may be again ... the research is a killer! LOL

CalicoHawk< daCrone ... 10-4 on the research!

Sprinkles< hmm, I have experienced both, and there is such a difference to me that I just know. Hard to explain, kinda more sense to the feeling of things and instinctively sensing that some other is present. Like to enter your home and know someone is there. but the sensing is strong enough to signal caution.

FRAML< Sprinkles: Can you elaborate further on what indicated the difference to you?

Sprinkles< A friend of a friend wanted me to visit her at her home and just to tell her if I felt anything strange there. I agreed, not sure what to expect. She allowed me to walk throughout her home and in each room I sensed things that seemed to explain to her more of what was going on. Well, I also picked up on this Indian scout and he told me he was there for this was the ground that he was protecting and guarding. He stood mainly outside the house. Thinking all was well after the visit I returned home. Only to still feel the presence of him still there. I got busy sewing and thoughts that came to mind were more of an Indian squaw and the seeing of me actually sewing moccasins. That is when I knew enough was enough. It was not my memories.

FRAML< Sprinkles: That is a good example.

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I have gone back in Time and visited my former self at the moment of death. I was thought by that former self to be an angel. There is the possibility that this "possession" is by the same self/entity.

greyman< elevaphoenix: Literally better angels of ourselves.

elevaphoenix< greyman: Yes ... a self from the future might truly be perceived as better angels of ourselves ... as we progress, learn, drop blocks, open abilities, and seek to understand the trajectory of the God-Spark we are ... across Time and Space. *S*

greyman< elevaphoenix: Also friends and Angels in the now. *g*

elevaphoenix< greyman: There are so many dimensions in which we exist simultaneously, that even our Guides could really be other Time/Space forms of our own selves. *VBS*

greyman< elevaphoenix: Respectfully submitted, the mapping is one to many, not many to one. Destiny directed from our past choices modified our future outcome, least we not violate our own "prime directive". *G*

elevaphoenix< greyman: Makes sense to me. *VBS*

greyman< elevaphoenix: Vetae est laborum. *g*

suitESPirit< in veras veritat, greyman?

Ernie< now herr what happen to me. my wife died. i got me another woman and then i open my eyes when we was in bed and looked to see my wife in this my new womans face. now i knew something was strange cause the doc said i was, but i tell you on a stak a bibles, i was feeling like my wifes feelings. in the feelings in the feeling of my new woman.

Ernie< now the doc comes with the preacher an his holy water and splashes it in the corners and stuff and over me and put it on my head. now me and my new woman are not gittin along anymore.

Ernie< well now then there was both women, my new one and my dead one, and they was both drinkers, and i got a clue somone said about the the drinkn, and the ghost of my dead woman jumped right in on my new woman. now we fight a lot and i just give her another drink ...

happiepamper< What's that preacher's name, Ernie?

Ernie< my preacher is my unkle Frank and my doc is not a friend and i dont like him much, mis happypamper. i was a happy pamper but now we jus fight.

daCrone< An attachee is looking for a physical vehicle for gratification or energy or closure, etc. ... is that what I am hearing?

guitarist< daCrone: I think you hear correctly, about attachees looking for physical vehicles for gratification of addictions, energy (the attachee looking for energy is not always a positive influence), or closure. I suppose that there could be many more reasons for this.

FRAML< QUESTION 3. I'm switching gears again: How do you differentiate between past life and/or attachee memories and repressed memories of this life, and why? Your turn.

elevaphoenix< I don't have any indication of any attachees in my past life information.

Halfdan< There is a profound difference. An experience that is yours is instantly available for you to rely on without any effort ... something like that ... does that make any sense ?

daCrone< Yes, Halfdan, that does make sense. I have a question, tho ... if I experience a place, via a portal, during an altered state, and that experience is immediately available at a later time, am I tapping into a memory?

Halfdan< daCrone: If you are experimenting with this, then it probably isn't of much importance to you whether it is your experience or not. I don't think this is what FRAML is talking about.

CalicoHawk< daCrone: It has been my supposition that during dream state, I am able to go where I want. The 'new' experience is just that. An experience and not a memory.

daCrone< I understand. *S*

FRAML< daCrone: I'm referring to what is called "repressed memory", where something, often traumatic, happens to a person and they repress their memory of it. It comes out only years later.

slider< FRAML: It's the emotion that is suppressed by forgetting the memory of an event. That emotion not expressed leads to many foggy pictures that can't be matched to events or times.

CalicoHawk< FRAML: You mean like the sudden feeling of dread when a certain shade of the color red is imposed? I still haven't figured that one out.

FRAML< CalicoHawk: That might be an example. However it is ambiguous enough that it could be from a past life or an attachee.

daCrone< FRAML: How do you differentiate between them?

CalicoHawk< FRAML: No, this is mine completely. I have been 'cleansed' of foreigners and still cannot go too deep into meditation on this color. I do know that it is from my own childhood. It was suggested by a friend that it could have been the dominate color during my NDE.

DestinyB< CalicoHawk: I traced my dislike of the color red to a past life where my throat was slit and my blood covered everything. The shade of red I hated was the color of fresh blood. Now that I understand, I no longer dislike the color.

CalicoHawk< DestinyB: This is an opaque rose color, much like a rose crystal.

daCrone< CalicoHawk: Were you very young when you had your NDE?

CalicoHawk< daCrone: I was told that I had died at the age of four. Don't remember it, myself.

DestinyB< The memories of past lives belong with those lives -- in the past. Each life we get another chance to start again. Though situations with people may occur in this life, if unresolved in former lives, we cannot be held accountable for things done in the lives lived before. We are responsible for what happens in this lifetime.

FRAML< DestinyB: That's a good point.

CalicoHawk< DestinyB: I disagree. The past lives we have encountered as learning experiences were to offer lessons and experiences. If these were neglected, we may have come back to regain the exposure.

elevaphoenix< But it certainly does help to explain enigmatic and even explosive relationships, Destiny B. *VBS*

DestinyB< elevaphoenix: That would really complicate things! :-D

sarahh< DestinyB: I think that we are destined to do certain things and that it is planned and agreed on before we're born. I think we choose this life. I have been "forced" by spirits to choose certain avenues of life that have been life changing positions and there was nothing I could do about it at that split moment in time --but I know that they were GOOD decisions from God that probably saved my life.

Ernie< now there is another time gives me the willys ... i git up from my seat and give my new woman a hug. didnt git to ona count the bottle got split on the rug and my new woman said she done saw a ghost do it and i jus gave her another drink and wiped up the rug and went to Franks place. he will pray on me and the rug and the ghost and the new woman and i am glad because i think i saw that ghost too but did not make her out much.

guitarist< I would think that if it were my past life (as opposed to that of someone else), then I would remember more than emotions or particular moments. I would be able to remember, perhaps, the entire lifetime; at the very least, times before and after a particular moment I am remembering. On the other hand, if I assume that every thought that pops into my head is my own, I'm not going to be able to distinguish my own thoughts from those of others who may be present. "If you talk to yourself, you're not crazy ... it's when you answer yourself. " I wonder whether "answering yourself" is an indication of an attachee or a past life.

Sprinkles< I believe knowing the difference is sort of knowing that when you read a good book, you can get into it and yet know it is a story; when you see a movie, you know it is a movie. It is not there but the mind takes you there. But if you go through your first diary or life journal that you review it's sensing of a kinda "hit home" feeling takes place. The Shoe fits, lol, kinda. *S*

FRAML< Conclusion: In trying to determine whether one is recalling a past life or is communicating the memories of a discarnate, pay attention to the pronouns. If it is an attachee, it will often use the 3rd person to refer to the body that is in front of you. In determining a past life memory, one needs to establish the surroundings that the person is in. In the paper "Past Life or Attached Entity? Five Diagnostic Keys" by Dr. William Baldwin, you will find more information on tonight's topic.

FRAML< I've got Dr. Baldwin's paper hotlinked to my name so that you can click and go to it if you wish. [http://home.dn.net/~bswett/Baldwin2.html]

FRAML< /topic Discussion on Past life or Discarnate attachee memories

Sprinkles< DestinyB: I would have to disagree with you in regard to past lives staying in the past. I feel it could be of a great help in this life and lives to come. For example. I had a fear of heights and never knew why. Well, when I found out how many times in past lives I had fallen off of one thing or other, of course I have a fear of heights. But realizing this gives me insight on how to not foolishly watch what I was doing. I took my first airplane ride 2 years ago. No more fear.

DestinyB< Sprinkles: I agree that we are shown past lives to learn from our mistakes and experiences and apply them to this lifetime. What would be the purpose in uncovering that information otherwise? What I meant was that, for instance, if you killed someone in a past life, you can no longer be held accountable for that. You've probably learned from that experience and wouldn't hurt anyone in this lifetime.

elevaphoenix< All those little "odd" things, so idiosyncratic ... fears, desires, dreams, sayings ... all clues. *VBS* The only attachee I have had that I have found out about was a "Shadow Worm" picked up from lower astral levels, from which I died in a past life. This makes me sensitive to them in this life, and willing to deal with any I might find with my clients. Willing ... and ABLE. *VBS*

daCrone< (((eleva))) Sometime, I would like for you to teach me more about this. I can testify that you are, indeed, very ABLE. (((HUGS)))

elevaphoenix< {{{daCrone}}} *KOTC* & *VBS* Yes, let us talk ... *VBS*

FRAML< suitESPirit: Regarding your earlier question, about if I have had a past life regression. I've talked with a person who does this and we've agreed that I don't have a pressing need to do one at this time. And I'm not interested in doing it just out of curiosity. Ben found Sgt. Odem during a session I had with him after I told him (when we were discussing several topics) that I had had the thought "I'm Sgt. Odem" pop into my mind while watching a show on the Battle of the Bulge. We also found the Shawnee Warrior who was acting as a sentinel for me; he had apparently attached to me when I was 15. He was neutral as far as influencing me.

suitESPirit< Interesting, FRAML. Have you ever thought of researching Sgt. Odem thru the archives? Should have some records on him. Take it from there ...

FRAML< suitESPirit: I've tried to locate him; however, without any idea of what his unit was (Battalion, Regiment or Division), I've no way to systematically search for him. There were a half million U. S. troops involved in the Battle of the Bulge. Since he survived, checking casualty lists won't work. I need to check unit rosters. I've checked a few units, but there are hundreds to go through.

Thanksgiving< I'm wondering about how all this relates to our collective consciousness ... and the recent tumult of energy on the winds ... and experience disembodied from body and time and space. Is it dream, hallucination, or just the backside of Maya ... ???

verge< If we indeed are one with all there is, and hence one with all that are in existence, it may not be a discarnate entity, but one that is existing.

CalicoHawk< verge: Very true!

Thanksgiving< I merge with verge on that one.

Halfdan< reality is a weird thing ...

Ernie< excuse me, Mr greyman, when my wife was goona have her first baby a doc came and his name was oc Layborye. something like that. put that e on the end of it. that e stuck on the end of the docs name sounds like a a

greyman< Ernie: What do you get when you toss a hand grenade into a French kitchen?

Ernie< well i been playing this ghoste game, mr greyman, sos i will play fair and i know i will git it from you and im gonna fall fer it. what im in for now, some dum stuff?

greyman< Ernie: OK, here it is: You get linoleum blown-apart!

Ernie< hahaha couda used that han granade Mr Greyman when my wife split that there booze in the rug that my new woman says she didnt and that would plum finish up these fights. hahaha

LEGS< Back for a bit I hope ... weather very bad here ... good session, FRAML ... thank you for leading it.

FRAML< LEGS: Thank you.

reed< Greetings. Interesting topic. For me "past life" refers to me ... my past lives, whereas attachee or ghosts can be from the past. There is a difference ... several hundred or thousand years ... and can represent themselves from that era.

FRAML< reed: You are correct. Ghosts can hang around for many years or centuries, and attach themselves to different people. Baldwin gives an example of that. I had an attachee who was apparently an Irish immigrant from the early 1800's; he was longing for his fiancee who was back across the ocean. I noticed him because I had a significant change in thoughts when around women, whom I had known for years.

DestinyB< The only time I've felt taken over was by that PMS spirit! She's a she devil!

verge< FRAML: I am of the understanding that there is no time in spirit, so how do they hang around?

FRAML< verge: You are correct that there is not the sense of time as we know it. Thus they 'float' in this plane of existence without going either upward toward the Light or into the Dark. They just stay in this realm and look for someone to help them finish their business or fulfill their desires/lust. They don't rise upward far enough to get into a reincarnation cycle. In fact, they may not believe in reincarnation and not believe in 'Heaven' either, so they stay here.

LEGS< Want to thank greyman also and guitarist for their teamwork in getting these seminars on greyman's site. ***HUGS***

greyman< LEGS: Gracious words accepted in gratitude.

Sprinkles< Yes! Greyman and Guitarist, thank you. Splendid !!

guitarist< LEGS: greyman and me, with a little of Ben thrown in for good measure as well. You're most welcome!

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I have actually found something ... physical ... from a past life. It made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.

suitESPirit< I was once asked to regress a young lady, who had the most uncontrollable urges to stab (in particular) men, who were in her house. She could not explain it coherently herself. During regression, I took her back to her immediate past life (and thru the death scene). In this regression, she was a Paris street walker ... (gas street lights, horsed drawn carriages, everything). She had been propositioned by a man outside the bar where she worked. As soon as she grabbed him by the arm, he turned around and stabbed her in the back ... (2 times). She fell to the sidewalk, and saw her blood running down the curb. To make a long story short, we worked out her fears in the present time. She understood why she had these horrible feelings. She is now doing very well in the movie industry, producing, and comes by to see me when in my area. She no longer has those horrible desires to stab ... MEN !!!! (For what it's worth) ...

Thanksgiving< suitESPirit: Nice story; nice handle. :-)

sarina< suitESPirit: I was thinking seriously about trying to find someone who could work with me in hypnotherapy as well as regress me, but I don't know how to find someone I can trust. Do you have any suggestions?

elevaphoenix< sarina: Look for a C.C.H. ... Clinically Certified Hypnotherapist. You can usually visit them initially for free. AUDITION them. Find one who lives in the same Universe you do. Someone you feel comfortable with. *VBS*

sarina< elevaphoenix: Hi. I was just reading some info from your homepage. Interesting, as I am seeking what to do with my gifts. Thank you for the info. But I wonder, what else can I look for specifically? Skepticism is a result of bad experiences I do not wish to repeat.

elevaphoenix< sarina: It is important that the hypnotherapist be OPEN to the possibility of past lives, and willing to explore it. Try to get as good a match, psychologically, energetically, as possible. I found one with a lifetime subscription to National Geographic ... and I was an Anthropology Major. Don't you know, when we found a past life of mine where I was a Mayan Priest involved in human sacrifice, he was eager to take me through that life, and especially one of the sacrifices, because he wanted to know what was REALLY the spiritual underpinning of them. He had the (well-founded) suspicion that it was NOT the bloody, revenge ritual we conceive it to be. *VBS*

sarina< elevaphoenix: Thank you for the information. Sounds like you made a good connection. Perhaps I will also when the timing is right.

elevaphoenix< {{{sarina}}} *VBS*

guitarist< So, elevaphoenix, what *was* the spiritual underpinning of Mayan human sacrifices? I think inquiring minds want to know.

elevaphoenix< guitarist: There is a connection between the "gods" and man ... a river of energy called The Red Road. The gods give to man ... and man in turn gives to the gods. Breathing out and breathing in. (The beating of the heart was called "the breathing of the heart".) The sacrifice was called "The Rising" ... it was the rising of the spirit, on wings, carrying the hopes of all ... (there's more, but it takes too long to outline right now. *S*)

guitarist< Thank you, elevaphoenix, for your explanation. I am reading your site right now. :)

reed< I feel that you bring forward from past lives the unresolved issues you couldn't resolve in a past life ... and these will be part of your experience in this life time as well as new experiences.

FRAML< reed: That is one reason for past life regression, as suitESPirit just gave. It is also useful in learning that there are some things that you don't have to be concerned about now, because the past life memories aren't relevant to today's world. Also, one sometimes has to learn to give up what were once considered 'virtues' that may be inflicting themselves on the person.

reed< FRAML: I disagree, past life issues and memories are very important.

FRAML< reed: I'm looking at it from the point that past life issues/memories may be the source of problems in one's current life. Thus, I agree that they are important, but that they are not always beneficial to a person. I've personally known several folks who had to essentially 'purge' events from their past lives to keep from repeating mistakes or doing things that were in conflict with various lives they've lived and their life today.

suitESPirit< Very well put, FRAML ...

verge< FRAML: So what then is the significance of centuries having passed?

reed< Past lives are not like reading a book. They are experiences you lived, and can't be willy-nillied away ... as they are a part of you, your essence. To discount or deny a past life is the same you do now in discounting and denying yourselves ... don't like what you see ... get rid of it. BUT it will come back as it is a part of you ... and the universe is there to make sure that what is yours comes back to you ... like it or not.

verge< reed: but are we not multi-dimensional, and able of expressing ourselves on different levels at the same time, and therefore able to present different personalities?

Thanksgiving< verge: Seems reasonable.

reed< verge: Yes, but there is a difference between expressing another aspect of yourself and being "possessed " by another entity. This is off topic but also linked to ghosts, as part of the reason for their not moving to their right place is attachment and a desire to RE-LIVE their experience or correct an injustice, etc, etc.

verge< reed: But we are not talking about possession or obsession, but about experience remembrance. There is indeed a difference, but where does the memory come from? Could "past life" experiences be nothing more than a parable or an explanation of what it is we need to understand and know about ourselves?

reed< verge: *S* Yes and no. Depends if we accept time as a reality or an illusion ... and if there is no time, then all our experiences are at once. I feel that time is both ... real in a sense, in that we need it to define our experiences ... but not like what we think it is ... it is more fluid.

LEGS< Throw me a rope ... *S*

verge< But time must be man-made, as it is tied to the physical movement. Chronology is for the physical experiences, advancement for the spiritual.

Sprinkles< verge: I would think past lives would contribute to a lot of understanding in one's life now, so long as the looking is not to apply the judging of what past life experiences were, just to understand them. To see where one is now and if improvements could be applied.

verge< Sprinkles: But the question is, is it really a past life that we learn from, or a parable, a symbolic experience to help us to understand?

daCrone< I am thinking another value of knowing about past lives is that collective patterns or ideas or possibilities may be evident.

Thanksgiving< daCrone: Sharing does seem to compound the lessons. It definitely makes the experience more fun! Hopefully it is increasing the speed of our metamorphosis!

elevaphoenix< Just understanding that there is a PATTERN ... just understanding that there is a REASON ... just understanding that there is a PRECEDENT ... takes us OUT of the Region of Chaos, and puts us back on The Path. *VBS*

Sprinkles< Yes! elevaphoenix, to be seen as a guide to knowing oneself better in order to conduct oneself in this life.

Thanksgiving< elevaphoenix: Your words have been prophetic in my life. Wowwy Zowwy have I been confronting some major PATTERNS!

LEGS< How is that purging done, FRAML? Can one do it alone, or does it require professional and prayerful help?

FRAML< LEGS: In some cases it is forgiving yourself for past guilt and also past virtues. One can read Dr. Baldwin's papers that are on his site. Ben has a link to them.

reed< FRAML: It's a start. but you have guilt in the past life, you also have guilt in this life ... can't fix one without fixing the other, too. BUT you also have to heal the underlying CAUSE of the guilt ... and THAT is the REAL ISSUE, past and present.

FRAML< reed: However, what may be 'guilt' in this life may be from something that was considered a 'virtue' in a past life. The problem is in solving the subconscious conflict between the two.

reed< FRAML: GUILT is GUILT ... virtue is a belief ... and beliefs change.

LEGS< I am not sure why the incidents that appeared to me, did, but in retrospect, I can see where perhaps at least one of them shows me why I hate to be by myself as much as I do ... as it was an extremely solitary life.

FRAML< elevaphoenix: Do you have anything to add to my reply to LEGS on 'purging' past life memories?

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I think, more than anything, the knowledge gained from reliving one's past lives is to understand the desires, fears, obsessions, vague yearnings ... the spontaneous sayings ... of this life ... so that we are not just "flapping in the wind" but have some REASON for our feelings and our actions. It is not so much a matter of "forgiving" past actions, as it is of understanding that our journey is an exploration of MANY issues, from ALL sides, because we are such CURIOUS little beings. *VBG*

LEGS< When my sister was regressed, she experienced the pain of having her hand burned during a torture incident in her past life, and after being brought back without the memory present at that time, she kept smoothing her hand, waving it occasionally, and finally the regressionist did a type of release so that she would not continue to be bothered by the lingering feelings.

FRAML< LEGS: That is an example of what I meant by "purge".

LEGS< I was not happy about this regressionist, and felt he was too 'new' at the science to perform it properly.

FRAML< NEXT SESSION: Holiday Party on 23 December. It will begin at 10 pm Eastern time. Merry Christmas to all.

Thanksgiving< FRAML: Please excuse, did not realize I was in a formal discussion. Blessings to you, and thanks!

FRAML< Thanksgiving: You're welcome. We are getting ready to go open forum in a few minutes.

elevaphoenix< WHY do we find some periods of history fascinating? WHY do we find some HORRIBLE? WHY are some *yawn* just not of ANY interest? WHY do we have recurring dreams? WHY do we feel so comfortable with "X" but run away from any interaction with "Y"? WHY do some people react VIOLENTLY to having been locked in a closet as a child? And others have no reaction at all? WHY do artists choose certain images to explore? Isn't all of this just FASCINATING?

Sprinkles< elevaphoenix: Yes, indeed it is and with every moment passing, lol

elevaphoenix< Personally, I always wondered why (1) I thought that Rameses II was the sexiest man who ever lived, and (2) I have NEVER found another leader I could believe in like Alexander the Great. (Don't EVEN get me started on the latest U. S. elections!)

FRAML< I'm starting to hear the pealing of the bells of St. Sealy's in the distance, so must depart here for evening services. Thank you all for participating tonight. I hope to have this transcript edited in a couple of weeks and will send it to greyman for posting on his website, where the new seminars are being kept.

Sprinkles< FRAML: Goodnight and thank you. You are a great host. *S*

elevaphoenix< {{{FRAML}}} Thank you for this forum. Thank you for this time. NAMASTE!!!!! *VBS*

Thanksgiving< verge: Please say something about time and space versus experience.

verge< Thanksgiving: Not sure what it is you are looking for. But I have come full circle in the reincarnation belief. I was ignorant of the process of reincarnation and eventually fully believed in the repeated process. But as time is more and more shown to be a man-made measure, the belief of simultaneous existence, and connection through our soul connection is gathering my attention.

Thanksgiving< IMHO, regressions are subconscious, as are many dreams, visions, etc. There is a clear difference between the subconscious and the collective consciousness. I don't have a clue about disembodied occurrences because I haven't experienced them.

verge< Thanksgiving: What is the clear difference?

Thanksgiving< verge: For me, the common consciousness is experienced in looking out from behind the leaves of a tree or from the eyes of another; being immersed in it. The subconscious is all familiar territory. Or common consciousness is the manifestation of something and the subconsciousness is the imagination that sparks it.

verge< Thanksgiving: It is possible to see thru the eyes of another, and to experience what they are. It is a common experience.

guitarist< verge: I think you hit on an important point earlier: where the memory comes from, is the key question to ask.

verge< Are they experiences you "lived" or "are living"?

reed< verge: Both ... there is a common link, thread between the unresolved past life issues and the issues now in one's life. Different experience ... same issue.

verge< reed: The point I was trying to make was that you could be having those experiences in another dimension (time frame) now.

reed< verge: It doesn't really matter. If you feel it in this physical form and time, THEN here is where you have to deal with it ... other dimensions you usually deal with in your dream time. BUT there may be issues in other D's that you may want to clear or can only clear here, so HERE and NOW is what is important.

Sprinkles< I agree with reed. It is life itself that the learning takes place, be it past or present or both.

verge< Exactly, reed. It is not necessary to identify it as a past life issue, or to explore the past life theory through regression, in order to understand the cause. It can be a useful tool, but is not the only way.

Thanksgiving< Other ways?

reed< verge: Yes, there are many tools, but in the end it is your intent to heal the original cause that will set you free of the cycle of denial.

verge< reed: But you are spirit here and now, and are expressing yourself on all dimensions at the same "time". And if that were true, and past lives were indeed past, would we not have dealt with them then?

Thanksgiving< verge: I believe you're on to something there. *VBG*

reed< verge: Have you dealt with all the issues and experiences in this life thus far ... to your satisfaction? Of course not, and the same applies for past lives.

verge< reed: How could you possibly make that determination? NOTHING is impossible. And by the way, it was your statement, not mine.

Thanksgiving< Original cause = Original sin? AHHHHHHHH! (I hope not!)

reed< Thanksgiving: There is a universe of truth in your statement, but I don't feel you mean it the way it actually is. Original cause ... is god ... and not man ... who sinned or erred.

Thanksgiving< reed: Famous yogi seriously implied that God did not do right by creating man ... lab rats, etc, etc ... Maybe God made the first error in judgment. Maybe God is learning and evolving too.

reed< Thanksgiving: *s* Yes, and isn't it wonderful that he has finally admitted that he isn't perfect ... so we don't have to try to be either ...

verge< But what exactly is sin? And can god err, or is it only through the actions of his creations that he does?

Thanksgiving< verge: Seems a calculated risk was taken in creating man. I've always believed mankind is a sort of an experiment. How many senses can you give a creature and not have it, well, not eat or screw itself to death? All suffering comes from wrong intent. Sin (wrong intent) brings suffering.

verge< Thanksgiving: But our suffering is a result of not understanding what we are here for, and what our place in the universe is. If we appreciate our connection with all there is, the suffering lessens, and becomes lessons.

Thanksgiving< verge: Yes, lessons! I agree. I'm probably one of those very old souls: been around a l-o-o-o-o-o-ong time, and still don't quite get it! *BG* But then, maybe it's just about learning to be in joy no matter what. The lessons used to come like tidal waves. Lately, they're more like gentle waves. And so is my attitude. *S*

elevaphoenix< This has been a Sacred Time. I am Honored to have shared it with you all. NAMASTE, cherished beings!!!! I must fly now. Goodnight. *VBS*

LEGS< Namaste, ((((((((elevaphoenix))))))))))))))

guitarist< Good night, elevaphoenix ... and thanks abundant to FRAML for his fine work this evening. *VBS*

Sprinkles< Goodnight, elevaphoenix *S*

Thanksgiving< (((elevaphoenix))) Be bathed in warm gentle light, dear one!

elevaphoenix< *POOF*

Ernie< i had a might fine time tellin my ghhhost storys and ai like all your ghost storys and the ones who dont them and keep your booze bottles out of site at nite and good nite and good nite to my ghoset wife that died on me when she had her baby and both them are ghost. my new woman dont like.

FRAML< /topic Open Forum

[The following was apparently in reply to a pm from reed to FRAML]

FRAML< It was in how you phrased your comment to verge on "have you dealt with ... "

FRAML< FYI: here are the Ground Rules that Ben laid out for the seminars 3 years ago that we go by: Courtesy is expected. Instead of attacking what others believe, say what you believe -- or politely ask others to explain what they post. Please keep your posts reasonably brief, and please don't get into off-topic side conversations. Please use the private message function to send greetings to new arrivals and to "whisper" in class once it starts. That way the text is easier for everyone to follow, and it is easier for me to clean up the transcript afterward.

reed< God's been talking to me, FRAML: We practice disagreeing without being disagreeable here. If I mis-understood what you were implying with your statement, I apologize.

FRAML< Then my apologies for not sending them to you. I post them when we begin at 10 pm.

Thanksgiving< Thank you, reed! That was helpful! Namaste All! POOF*

FRAML< ***POOOOOOOOOOOOF***

Thanksgiving< FRAML reminds me a lot of God. Create a good thing and then POOF! *VBG*

verge< Time for me to be leaving. Hope to meet ...

Sprinkles< Goodnight, verge, and thank you for contributing. It was interesting. *S*

LEGS< reed: It isn't the easiest thing to lead a seminar discussion AND deal with private messages courteously simultaneously. I think FRAML is a good man and a godly man ... I thank God that he is my friend.

reed< LEGS: I wasn't discussing what he was doing or his manly or godly qualities ... and I am not going to discuss that, as it is a non-issue. Now if you want to talk or discuss anything, I'm game.

LEGS< reed: To me FRAML's godly qualities are not a non-issue ... but that is because we are old friends ... not only cyber but 3d and I have grown to appreciate his good advice and caring attitude for people.

guitarist< Yes, reed, I agree with LEGS on this one.

Sprinkles< Now here's a good topic: "Time" where it goes, lol how it flies, lol and how it is spent. ROTFLMHO

guitarist< And what happens when we have fun, Sprinkles. *WEG*

LEGS< On behalf of the hosts of Ben's Seminars, I want to thank all of you for attending and participating tonite. It makes it more beneficial for everyone when there is a lively discussion that is kept mainly to the subject ... *s*

Jello< It's good to see everyone. :)

LEGS< *{*{*Jello*}*}* welcome, even if you are running late tonite. I have been kicked off line most of the evening. *s*

guitarist< LEGS: My computer has had a hard time here tonight. SWC seems very slow to me.

Jello< Ugh, it's the 'net. :) Yes, sorry I missed it ... there were 2 parties tonight, so that's one reason I'm late. Unfortunately I wasn't in the mood for them, but hey, it was free food. ;)

guitarist< (((Jello)))

Sprinkles< Hello, Jello. Good to see you. *S*

LEGS< and you too, Sprinkles, I have had to hurry and post and not spend any time saying hello tonite ... but it is good to see you here ... thanx for coming and being part of this seminar. l love seeing you here and hearing/reading what you have to say.

Sprinkles< That's a ditto LEGS. *S*

Jello< What was the topic again?

guitarist< The topic was "Past Lives or Attachees?" and was hosted by FRAML.

Jello< Did Ben come by?

guitarist< No, as far as I know, Ben did not.

Jello< LEGS is gone too? :( Ah well.

Sprinkles< Greetings anixial. *S*

anixial< Hello all. Please excuse my slowness, first time using web chat ... :)

Sprinkles< anixial: Well, you have come to the right place. Just don't ask me how to send a private message. Sometimes I know how, sometimes I don't. lol And even when I do, I don't. lol

guitarist< Hello, anixial, and welcome.

Sprinkles< Welcome Spiritheart, like your nic. *S*

Jello< I can never seem to get a history ... was there an overall summarization?

guitarist< I'm trying to get it, but I don't think I can see more than 50 lines up.

Sprinkles< guitarist: I can't get it either. I thought we could go up to 125 lines? Perhaps the rest of the lines are caught in pm land, and that is why it got clogged and my messages passed through? (good try, uh?)

[Apparently the following was in reply at a pm asking about the seminar]

Jello< I think the seminar is over. If you are interested in the transcript it should be up at http://home.dn.net/~bswett/seminars/seminars.html sometime within the next week or something like that. :)

guitarist< Jello: Probably it will be up in 2 weeks. It was quite long.

Jello< Thanks, guitarist. I just meant, was there an overall gist? I have been wondering. (Plus lately I've been so inundated with religious doubt so much ... did anyone doubt reincarnation?)

Sprinkles< Jello: I believe it was more towards where we might perceive past life memories come from and the difference between them and an attached spirit who may be possessive.

guitarist< The whole thing was about the difference between what marks a past life and what marks an attachee. No one doubted reincarnation, but several said they were young souls. I, for one, have no doubt that I have not had past lives. From the description others gave, I have never experienced anything that would indicate this.

Jello< guitarist: In other words, you are sure you don't have past lives? Do you believe in reincarnation? Just curious.

guitarist< I'm pretty sure that I understand that there is reincarnation, and that I have not experienced it personally. (Who knows, but I could find evidence now that I have professed that I haven't any. LOL)

Jello< guitarist: heh, well, the only evidence I have for it are strange emotional themes in my life that seem very familiar. A lot of angst that has no basis in my past, for example. OTOH, I know I have vulnerabilities to attachees.

guitarist< I have lots of angst myself, but it could all be explained by my past. So, I have no reason to believe otherwise. OTOH, I have found several attachees and probably will find more.

Jello< I think I have definitely seen a case of a false past life memory ... ugh. There was a lot of energy sweeping through the room while that was going on. It was very strange.

guitarist< Jello: What was this case of false past life memory?

Jello< It had to do with an elaborate case of spiritual deception. It may not have been false, but given so much else was, it probably was.

Jello< The ONE thing I find hopeful about reincarnation is it goes against the image of a God who tosses you into Hell for your sins or your lack of belief in a particular philosophy.

Jello< Attachees sometimes also give me hope that God doesn't just kick you into Hell ... though I don't know what happens afterward, and I know fundies would claim they are lying spirits of deception sent to confuse us about the nature of God and the afterlife. *sighs*

guitarist< Interestingly (to me, since I'm Jewish, and to others who are), the Orthodox Jews (particularly the Chasidim) are beginning to come out with a belief in reincarnation that they say is totally based on Judaism. And, I know lots of Jews who don't believe in going to Hell, but probably wish they did after Hitler. :)

Jello< guitarist: I'd be very interested in that material regarding reincarnation. I've heard it talked about (the idea that Biblical texts regarding it were thrown out or censored) but so far I haven't heard any Jewish scholarly support of that.

guitarist< I am familiar with the arguments of fundamentalist Christians on this subject. *sigh* I'll send you a synopsis of the next ad for a lecture or other event I find on the subject. It will probably be in the Philadelphia area.

Jello< Any books or online literature would be very cool, too. :)

guitarist< OK, if I find any. // ALL: And now I must go. Next door to St. Sealy's, I discovered a synagogue called Beth Sim'mons. (a joke between FRAML and me)

Sprinkles< Good night, guitarist. Been A pleasure as always. *S*

piano< Hello everyone. I heard you were talking past lives. I am interested.

Sprinkles< Greetings, piano. *S* Have you had past life experiences?

piano< sprinkles: I don't know. I have a VERY vivid memory of walking down a very narrow curved flight of stairs in a Victorian home wearing a long black dress from the Victorian era. I don't know if that means anything.

Sprinkles< piano: When did this memory come about? Where were you? What were you doing that made it come to mind?

piano< I don't rightly remember. I just see it like it happened in this life. BUT IT DIDN'T.

Sprinkles< piano: How do you feel about this memory? Is it good? Did it expand more? Were you nervous? It sounds interesting. I would try to look further into it. Do you smell anything? What other objects do you recall? These questions can sometimes be helpful in getting more of the picture.

guitarist< Good night, all. FRAML: Don't forget this conversation ... even though it's wayyyy doooowwwwnnnn hhhhheeeeerrrrrreeeeeeeee ... ***poof***

Sprinkles< Well, good friends, I have an early day coming and it is time to rest up for it. May you all have many blessings of Love, Light, and Happiness always ***~Sprinkles~*** *poof*