The Power of Prayer
Session 1
Sat 06 Jan 2001
Leader: FRAML


suitESPirit< Thank you, FRAML. At 8:00 PM PST ??

FRAML< Yes, I'll be back in 20 min or so.

Sensitive_f< hey ... I feel lonely. :(

elevaphoenix< Namaste, loving lightbeings! ^*^*^twinkle^*^*^

FRAML< There is no pre-planned topic for tonight. I've been quite busy the last couple of weeks to come up with one.

elevaphoenix< Pardon my energy if you are met for quiet contemplation and meditation ...

FRAML< Thus I just posted open forum to see what comes up and if anyone shows up.

elevaphoenix< {{{FRAML}}} Oh, the Seminar!!!! *VBG*

FRAML< elevaphoenix -- No set topic tonight.

elevaphoenix< *ducking head with sheepish look* ... I had quite forgotten ... but I'm ready for ... whatever ... *VBG*

Sensitive_f< I'd love to talk if anyone wants to ...

elevaphoenix< {{{Sensitive_f}}} I'm sure someone will come up with a topic of interest ... or maybe we'll just chat idly until something said sparks some interest. *VBG*

FRAML< Hello, Sensitive, how are you tonight?

elevaphoenix< {{{suitESPirit}}}*VBS*, {{{Celeste}}}*VBS*, {{{Ishtahota}}}*VBS*

greyman< Namaste, dear ones.

elevaphoenix< {{{greyman}}}*VBS*

greyman< {{{elevaphoenix}}}

Celeste< greetings. *S*

suitESPirit< (HUGS) & VBS to you elevaphoenix ...

Ishtahota< AhHo!! All / eleva / FRAML

FRAML< SEMINAR CONCEPT -- These seminars are open to anyone who wants to attend. Each seminar will explore a stated topic. Each meeting will be a one hour guided discussion, followed by unguided discussion of the topic. There will be no fees or other charges, no grading system, and no predetermined "school solution." Selected portions of the meeting transcripts will be posted on this site -- but not if they contain a statement such as "off the record".

FRAML< SEMINAR GROUND-RULES -- Courtesy is expected. Instead of attacking what others believe, say what you believe -- or politely ask others to explain what they post. Please keep your posts reasonably brief, and please don't get into off-topic side conversations. Please use the private message function to send greetings to new arrivals and to "whisper" in class once it starts. That way the text is easier for everyone to follow, and it is easier for me to clean up the transcript afterward.

greyman< No grading system! *G* You mean this is not gradual school? *G*

FRAML< TO ALL: My apologies. I haven't gotten the seminar I led on 16 December edited yet. Right now I'm not sure when I will get it done, due to several things going on that are taking priority.

suitESPirit< That's OK, FRAML ... I think everyone is just happy SWC is back "ON" and we can be a family again ...

elevaphoenix< Oh, the "Past Lives or Discarnate Entities" was the LAST? I was here for that. It was fun!!!!

FRAML< elevaphoenix: Yes, I thought it went well.

greyman< I have a rough draft on my web site. Just click on me.

FRAML< Thanks, greyman.

greyman< FRAML: No problem. *G*

elevaphoenix< {{{InnerJourney}}} *VBS*

InnerJourney< Greetings. :)

FRAML< As a possible topic: I was thinking today about when people ask others to pray for them or for a loved one who is sick. To whom do the various folks pray? What is the power of the prayer? How do we know if all the prayers are effective?

FRAML< Ok. I'll post "The power of prayer" as the topic.

FRAML< /topic BEN'S SEMINAR: A discussion of "The power of prayer"

FRAML< 1st Question: Have you asked others to pray for you or for a family member? If so, why did you do it and what were you expecting from it? Your turn.

elevaphoenix< {{{Lo}}} *VBS*

Lo< Greetings to (((all))). The topic has a lot of depth and breadth!

greyman< {{{Lo}}}

FRAML< Ok, I'll lead. Just this week I asked folks from my church and those who I know here in SWC to pray for a family member. I believe that it does work, and that God hears the prayers of people for others.

NewLight< FRAML: Definitely! There are times I pray for comfort and immediately I have a feeling of calm and protection.

greyman< (1) Stop, clear your mind. (2) Elevate, raise your spirit, generate joy, think of something uplifting. (3) Focus your attention to the person(s). (4) Ask, about step 3. (5) Listen, to that small voice. (6) Test, the message given.

NewLight< Hello, All!

gardengirl< Greetings, all. *S*

WaveWarrior< Is there a specific God to whom one prays?

FRAML< WaveWarrior: Ah, an interesting point.

greyman< WaveWarrior: The God: "I Am". With an easy connection through Jesus.

NewLight< For me there is only one God. The Being/Power that created us and watches over us.

suitESPirit< Ps: 122:6 We are all asked to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Prayer is very powerful ... whether it be for a person or a City.

greyman< suitESPirit, Yes, Jerusalem, and all of Israel and the Middle East.

gardengirl< I have read of studies done where people in hospitals who are being prayed for, by people in the churches they are members of, on the whole, get better measurably faster than people who others are not praying for.

suitESPirit< Group prayer and (unknown to the person being prayed for) has clinically shown (in some cases) absolute healing properties. Doctors are bewildered & only those praying know who did the healing.

elevaphoenix< The very first time I astral traveled on a healing mission was when I had been asked to send prayers, love and light for someone. When I went into the meditative state, I suddenly just "popped out" where they were. So that is now my form of prayer. If I am asked to pray for someone and I can visit them, because I have a connection to do so, I do. Otherwise I THINK of visiting them, and send instead The Power of a Thought. That's my prayer. *VBS*

greyman< elevaphoenix: Astral travel is fun. Your prayer can transmit from where you are, or you can travel "up" and ask directly. Connections can stretch, so you can lift up your connections as to help those who will help "in the light".

elevaphoenix< Thank you, greyman. *VBS*

FRAML< elevaphoenix: How do you find the person if you only know them via the internet?

Lo< I recently witnessed the power of prayer. In early October, I asked a group of friends to pray about a decision of a single daughter to adopt a baby from overseas. I had just been asked by my daughter to escort her to a country I had never visited before and to a city I had never even heard of before. The response I got was to ask for the Lord's view when I saw the candidates. I did this when I was shown a little 9 and a half month old baby, using the approach just outlined by greyman. The answer I received was "YES, DEFINITELY." It's a long story, but this Christmas eve, my wife and daughter arrived back from Perm, Russia, with that little girl with all the paper work, etc. approved. She has blossomed in so many ways the past 2 weeks, it just boggles the mind. She is a very good baby, getting more beautiful as each day passes. I get strong indications that she is indeed blessed by the angels who are possibly as pleased with this turn of events as we are. The Lord be praised!

FRAML< Lo: Good example.

gardengirl< I think it's about intention, more specifically, about 'collective intention'. From my Catholic school days, I remember something about "wherever two or more of thee are gathered in my name ... there is Love" ...

WaveWarrior< gardengirl: I also believe that definition about one or more gathered - constitutes a church - as opposed to a building.

FRAML< WaveWarrior: Yes, a church is the people more than the building, a point of definition that is often forgotten.

gardengirl< WaveWarrior: Good point ... I hadn't thought of that ... thanks. *S*

FRAML< EVERYONE: My question to elevaphoenix can be widened to include how do we connect to those whom we only know by a chatroom nickname? Also, how does your god/creator then find them?

NewLight< If God knows the numbers of hairs on my head, I think he also knows who I am, where I am, and what nickname I use on the Internet.

greyman< NewLight: Yes, but both you and God have "Free will", what the folks in the east call an uncaused cause. *g*

Lo< NewLight: I sense that God does not know us by nicknames that we might use but rather by our internal spiritual nature as a being. I suspect that Greyman neglected to mention that his step 3 involves REALLY caring about the person. That is how I have found that the angels, etc. find me when I am praying and how they find the person(s) that I am praying about. I have found that this works.

greyman< Lo: Yes thank you for the amplifier to raise the "gain" above the noise.

elevaphoenix< FRAML: If I am with them in a room and they request healing I go down the electronic connection to them. Once I've done that, I go into resonance with their personal vibrational frequency, which registers somewhere inside me. After that I need only THINK of them to go there. If someone is requesting something from me it is because they know me from experience, having HAD a visit from me ... and when they request for another, I can just go THROUGH them and follow the path of their thoughts. *VBS*

FRAML< elevaphoenix: That makes sense to me. I visualize people I know when I pray for them.

elevaphoenix< FRAML: I have found that there is ego-energy invested in the name we choose here ... that ego-energy has the person's vibratory pattern all over it. *VBS*

FRAML< Any other thoughts on how one connects to a person they don't know for prayer? Or how god/God can find that person?

WaveWarrior< Well, Cayce claimed there is a universal record and he was able to access it and connect directly to an individual even if they were in a different country - he provided very accurate documented diagnosis of the individual - perhaps he was on to something?

FRAML< 2nd Question: How important is it to you to know whether or not your prayers for the person worked? Or is it not important at all? Your turn.

elevaphoenix< Oh, dear, BUSTED!!!! My HigherSelf invests NOTHING in knowing the results. But my InnerScientist there in her lab coat is recording results on her clipboard, just to PROVE that it's REAL. *sheepish smile*

greyman< elevaphoenix, Kindred soul.

LadyV< FRAML: I think that you always know in time. When you pray it starts the ball rolling and all that is good is involved ... in the end somehow ... some way you see the end results. That is why Mothers pray ... or that is what Mothers tell me.

FRAML< Since no one has responded to the 2nd question, may I assume that it doesn't matter to you that you know if the person you are praying for got better or worse?

elevaphoenix< Hey, I responded!!!!! *G*

FRAML< elevaphoenix: My apologies. I was typing as you posted.

elevaphoenix< *LOL* I think my InnerScientist got away from me there for a moment ... sorry ...

WaveWarrior< FRAML: I expect the result does matter to the one who prayed, or else they would not have done so -- probably?

FRAML< WaveWarrior: Does it matter to *you* when you pray, is what I meant.

WaveWarrior< FRAML: I suppose it matters that one prayed -- that being the point rather than the outcome which can never be proven.

FRAML< WaveWarrior: Yes, that (in my case) God looks down and says, "There is Joe that all those folks are praying for. H'mm, what is the best way I can help him."

greyman< FRAML: It is important, very important. Feedback is important in order to accomplish two objectives. (1) To verify effective prayer communication. And (2) to benefit the person you are praying for. You may argue that (3) you benefit if the first objective is met. And (4) try to improve connection if failure of first two objectives.

FRAML< For me, I hope to get feed-back on my prayers for others for the reasons greyman stated, but I do not consider it essential for me to continue to pray for people. I have gotten enough feed-back that I do know that I have made connections.

Lo< FRAML: In response to the 2nd question: I find it strengthens my faith and understanding when I learn that my prayers have helped someone.

LadyV< Lo: That is well said ...

WaveWarrior< Lo: The difficulty becomes not knowing if the outcome would have been the same either way. So faith it did make a difference is probably a large component -- perhaps?

Lo< WaveWarrior: I understand, but by observing the results of your prayers in many situations, you can begin to recognize unique things that give you confidence. For example, in the case of my daughter's recent adoption, we were told by the facilitators that they have rarely had an adoption go through so smoothly and quickly. There were several times when we were told they were surprised that we were so successful - for example, my daughter was approved to proceed with the adoption of two girls the very day she made her interview with one of the official agencies. I was there and saw how well it all worked. We were told that an approval to proceed usually took two or three days even with married applicants! Also, the case just before my daughter's was disapproved because of some technicality - delaying their adoption for another three of four months! That really scared my daughter. It seemed critical that I had accompanied by daughter in her mission, showing our family's support. It again seemed to have a positive impact on the judge at the court hearing to learn that her mother was just outside the courtroom waiting. He asked that she come in - an action our facilitators said normally is not allowed - her presence, as an indication family support, seemed to have a definite positive impact. You see, there were two trips involved: the first one to select a child or children, in which I was involved, and then a second for the court hearing, etc. before they would release the child, in which my wife was involved (to help with the baby on the return trip).

LadyV< Either way it is positive energy ... and not negative ... regardless of the outcome ... since the outcome is not decided by us ... the action of the prayer is what matters ... the mutterings ... the silence ... the hope ...

greyman< LadyV: We are in the loop, too. We can choose not to get well. I've see this. It is not pretty.

LadyV< greyman: That's true ... we all have choice ...

elevaphoenix< I think, more than anything, it is the INTENTION of the energy expended in the thought that matters.

FRAML< The dedicated hour is about up, and I'm trying to come up with a 'wrap-up' statement.

LadyV< Then you have the prayer for the sick that goes on without ceasing ... and you do it. You do this because someone has to do it ... and it might as well be you ... and hope all others are praying also ... that is prayer ... loving enough to get your mind and heart into it ... that is the prayer for the sick ... and it works ... sometimes I think that makes a real difference ... and the final prayer when the decision is made one way or the other by the Almighty is that of relinquishment ... letting go ... knowing you did try ... and remembering that you are asked only to love and to try ... the actual healing is not in your power ... it is your love that aids the healing ...

greyman< LadyV: I salute a true veteran. God Bless you.

LadyV< greyman: All of us ... each and every one ... *smiling*

FRAML< I've drawn a blank, but I think LadyV's last post does rather well.

LadyV< FRAML: Thank you. Regards to Ben and his family.

greyman< Yeah, where is the ole Benmister?

FRAML< LadyV: I'll pass them on when I see him tomorrow.

greyman< Yes, thank you, FRAML.

elevaphoenix< Sorry, I must leave this interesting discussion, but I have a healing mission request. NAMASTE, all ... *Radiating Love and Light in all directions ... *POOF*

WhiteWave< Namaste.

YellowLight< WhiteWave: Namaste. I've just been listening, everyone. I've found it very interesting. *S*

FRAML< YellowLight: Glad you enjoyed it. Feel free to put in any comments you have.

YellowLight< Thank you, FRAML

WhiteWave< (((YellowLight ))) Hello ... ((( LadyV ))) ~ WaveWarrior ~ ...

FRAML< /topic Open discussion on "The power of prayer".

WaveWarrior< The Mayan prayed for the sun to rise every day -- it did -- so the priests took credit for it rising. It became too risky to quit ...

LadyV< WaveWarrior: Interesting point ...

greyman< WaveWarrior: Many priests died in Egypt (over the centuries) because their prayers were not effective. The sun rising was a sure bet.

FRAML< WaveWarrior: That is sort of the opposite of praying for a persons recovery. Praying that something natural will happen.

WaveWarrior< FRAML: Are you saying healing is un-natural?

FRAML< WaveWarrior: No, just that they were taking credit for something that happened by course, and not because they prayed for it. I see it as them saying, "If we don't pray for the sun to rise, you'll be in darkness, thus you better do what we say."

WaveWarrior< But unless we know that no one in the entire world prayed for it to rise tomorrow -- would it?

FRAML< WaveWarrior: In today's world, it would, but you have a point about back then.

greyman< WaveWarrior: Eastern thought does not "buy" into Laws per se. The core thought in their philosophy is: No creator exists. Western philosophy assumes a creator, and thus chaos is under some control and direction. *g* Western laws of physics assumes a creator; Chinese do not. Buddha shows us how to release our pain by releasing our desires, but that may lead to spiritual death. No desire will snuff out the uncaused cause of our existence. Those of us who come back to serve do so with our own free will. And a desire to help enables us to live with zest. *g*

FRAML< WaveWarrior: I think that people have been healed as a result of the intercessory prayers of others. It is natural and super-natural.

WaveWarrior< FRAML: I agree.

WhiteWave< I witnessed the power of prayer and the healing from it here amongst our SWC family. A person who had hardly no time given to live has now lived over a year since the prayer circles began ... and ... continues to regain strength and vitality.

FRAML< WhiteWave: There is a member of our congregation who thanked us for our prayers. He said he knew because at one point during his illness he saw angels around him and they told him to not be afraid.

WhiteWave< (((FRAML))) Beautiful! ... this strengthens my belief that we are doing well with our prayers. *S*

[The list of names at the top of the page shows that daCrone has entered the room]

WhiteWave< ((daCrone))

FRAML< (((daCrone))) Welcome. We had an impromptu seminar tonight. I hadn't planned to do anything, but came up with the topic posted. Please provide any comments you have on it.

daCrone< Thank you for the greetings. I am sorry to have missed this discussion, but I will read the review. *S* Unfortunately, my system will not let me see more than 50 lines back. :-{

WhiteWave< daCrone: I think you have to wait until it is posted in review tomorrow.

FRAML< daCrone: I think that is a glitch in SWC. I've not been able to get back beyond 50 lines since the site was redesigned. I opened with asking, if you pray for others, how do you know that your prayers were connected to them & your deity; and is it important to you to get feed back on whether the person benefited from your prayers.

daCrone< Thank you, FRAML ... that helps me understand better. *S*

Lo< I am not sure I mentioned that my wife and daughter AND NEW GRANDDAUGHTER arrived CHRISTMAS EVE (very symbolic: "FOR UNTO US A CHILD IS GIVEN"), a bit travel weary to be sure, but VERY delighted to be back home and to be greeted at the airport by such a host of friends and relatives. Our Christmas joys this year were beyond our wildest dreams!

gardengirl< Lo: That was a beautiful story ... thanks for sharing it. *S*

Lo< Good night all. May blessings flow to each as needed.

daCrone< When my husband was in ICU and nurses were preparing him to be a veg, I prayed ... at the time I did not call it a prayer -- the insight for that came later. Anyway, the response was immediate. I have no doubt that prayer works. I have been on an information search for 5 years now.

FRAML< ALL: Thank you all for participating in this impromptu session tonight. It is time for me to head off to St. Sealy's for evening services there. (& a good slug of Nyquil)

WhiteWave< Good night, FRAML

greyman< Good night, FRAML.

daCrone< Blessings, FRAML ... I hold you and yours in my heart and prayers.

FRAML< TO ALL: Remember to count your blessings before you sleep (it is better than counting those pesky sheep). ******POOOOOF*******

WhiteWave< Recently my daughter was kidnapped ... and it was prayer that got her back ... but along with the prayer, it was the commanding of the prayer, the action of the prayer, that did it. I know the exact moment, and in that moment, I commanded from my highest self in prayer ...

WaveWarrior< WhiteWave: I am so pleased the outcome was good!

WhiteWave< Thank you, WaveWarrior. It was a BIG test for sure ... and I'm dealing with aftershocks.

daCrone< (((WhiteWave))) I too am pleased to hear she returned ... my hope is that there is minimal damage.

gardengirl< ((gotta go ... love to all ... 'nite. *S*))

WhiteWave< Good night to all that are leaving.

WaveWarrior< Good night all ~(wave)~

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