LadyV: is my time wrong here...it is 11 Eastern I think...I am laughing...thought it was 11...Nuts!!!

Sprinkles: Greetings LadyV, I think the time is right. Just don't know where everyone is, LOL. It should be 11:23 Eastern time now. Perhaps weather is causing a delay.

LadyV: I think FRAML might have had to go to the hospital with the child or got tied up somehow...hope everything is ok...FRAML is usually on time...we will probably hear from him soon.

FRAML: Yes, my daughter continues to do fairly well. Thanks. It was her going into the hospital that brought the topic to mind.

FRAML: Last week we held an impromptu seminar on The Power of Prayer. My primary focus was about prayers for those who are having health problems; however, Lo gave an excellent account of answered prayer for guidance in making a decision. We also discussed how we make contact with a person whom we only know via a chat nickname when we pray for them.

FRAML: 1st Question: Last week Wave Warrior asked: "Is there a specific god/God one prays to?" I saved that to ask folks tonight. To whom or what do you pray when praying for a person to recover from ill health and why?

aikiwalk: It depends on how that person encounters God how I name him as I pray with or for someone if I am with them at the time. It affects that persons receptivity I have found.

guitarist: a)I pray to my Father in Heaven, whom I acknowledge as the Creator of the Universe, when I pray for someone to be healed b) because it makes sense to me that whoever created this place and all of us should know how to heal us. Even if the answer is no, at least I asked. I just have to try. :)

FRAML: I pray to Jesus and/or his Father, because I have faith in them and have known of them to cause healing, not just through scripture, but of people I know.

LadyV: aikiwalk it would be the person's concept of God that would determine his faith in his healing? I am asking respectfully...

aikiwalk: hmm, not meant that way exactly...an example...if someone had a difficult relationship with their father...I do not begin Father, please...I will ask them how they see their relationship/concept of God if I do not know....and frame it within that concept...God honors the prayer and the faith of the one's praying and receiving whether we know outcomes or not...

LadyV: aikiwalk thank you. I did not understand.

aikiwalk: God has *many* different names in the Bible and in other holy books.

guitarist: aikiwalk, to clarify my remark, I was not referring to praying *with* the person, but *for* the person. It is a different matter when the person and I pray together, as you so aptly point out.

daCrone: I once prayed a prayer: I don't know who you are or what you are but, if it is that you can help or send help, I am now asking...there is nothing more I can do...

LadyV: daCrone, that is very profound.

suitESPirit: Personally, I contact "THE GREAT HEALER" with his personal number connection...Jeremiah 33:3...Very powerful...No one else has to know the name upon whom you are calling. Do it in silence within your own heart...not for outward glorification.

guitarist: *S* at suitESPirit...

aikiwalk: I've experienced people praying for me...while I was there...not with me...that's why I said it that way. I usually pray to the Father for healing if I am in my own prayer time too.

LEGS: I pray as FRAML said...to Jesus and His Father....

Ishtahota: Their are two native words I use. One means Great Mystery; the other means Sacred Grandparent, for more personal stuff. Praying for someone's healing is tricky for me. Many times someone's higher self may be using illness to help them learn a lesson. And if the illness is to take them off of the planet and I or another medicine person pray for healing it could actually make their passing a lot harder. The power of prayer to us is real and because of that comes greater responsibility. It takes a lot of personal work to get the ego out of the way to get a clear picture of what spirits will actually is.

LEGS: Ishtahota, I usually pray for the best outcome, for strength to bear the stresses attendant with illness, for co-operation among family members, for guidance for the doctors and other medical personnel being consulted... and so on..

FRAML: LEGS: I've found myself using that type of prayer for a lot of folks, especially the elderly. My Uncle Bob, who died of cancer a couple of years ago, was the recipient of that type of prayer from me.

LadyV: Ishtahota has a point, I feel. I heard a sermon once about how one can get in the way of the Holy Spirit and he picks you up by the scruff and puts you out of the way. The example given was for wife that had a husband that was a real stinker...she prayed and she prayed..."make it ok"...what she failed to realize was that the Holy Spirit wanted that man to learn a lesson and his wife kept imploring to fix it...when she stood back and said "thy will" then the man had to face his realities. I think God has a soft heart myself. Interesting sermon...that...some man out of Georgia I forget his name now.

aikiwalk: yes, Lady V and Ishtahota...have even known people to not be able to let go and die because of those praying for life and healing...until the people began offering the person to God for wholeness and peace...not just our idea of a cure.

guitarist: I think I was responding to a remark from aikiwalk that "father" is not always the best way to refer to G-d if the person one is praying with had a bad experience with his/her father. I would pray to G-d more as I think of Him (and I don't believe G-d is a "him", but it is more the language convention I use.). (You might catch me addressing the Deity as "Her" once in a while, too, in the future. But it isn't because I believe in a dual deity; rather, it is because I notice in the Jewish prayer books that the same Deity is referred to in both genders as appropriate to the attributes being praised, etc.) Sorry for long post!

FRAML: Expansion question: A couple of you have mentioned that you pray differently if you are praying for a person, or with a person. Pleas expand on how or to whom would you pray if you were not with the intended recipient of your prayers?

aikiwalk: If I am not with the person I am praying to Jesus and the Father, I trust and believe in the relationship I have and the prayers I have seen answered even if I do not understand them at the time or have to wait. If I am not with them, I ask that healing of mind, soul/heart and body be begun and connection to God be strengthened and acknowledge healing may not always be a cure.

suitESPirit: When I wake up in the middle of the night because I can't sleep, I begin to pray for all women in childbirth "at this present time"...I do not know who they are, I just believe in my heart, my prayer is being answered and might be helping some mother some where...I have done this for years, & don't know why I started this particular form of silent prayer.

daCrone: suitESPirit ... I honor you

suitESPirit: (((daCrone))) **VBS**

LadyV: daCrone, I also honor suitESPirit -- that is very special.

aikiwalk: I hold an image of that person sitting in the Father's lap or walking along with Jesus ...comfortable, whole and at peace as part of the prayer

Ben: FRAML: Good questions. I pray to Our Father, through Jesus. I may modify my words when I pray aloud with someone, but I don't necessarily pray to whatever deity they would pray to.

birdheart: (Hello all *S*) These are interesting questions... I'm thinking maybe *who* we pray to, or who I pray to... is someone/something for which I have no name, and yet know intimately, with every fiber of my being, even so... maybe we are unconsciously so immersed in/part of "God" that we aren't able to define "God"...

lemurian: When I pray I ask for my higher self to their higher self. I ask for what ever healing without the ego. I may perceive what they need on my human level. That may not be what is needed for that person. Personally even for myself, I ask my higher self to take over and do what is best for all concerned.

FRAML: 2nd Question: This is a turn in looking at prayer: Can we make a person sicker by praying for their recovery?

guitarist: I don't have an answer to that one.

aikiwalk: Neither do I.

birdheart: FRAML... I think sometimes we might need to get 'sicker' in order to eventually get well... so yes, maybe prayer can lead to someone getting sicker...

FRAML: birdheart: A point that I didn't have in mind.

aikiwalk: Can we turn the question around? I cannot make someone better by praying...I cannot make someone sicker by praying. It is between God and that person...I can be a conduit to God on the person's behalf...but cannot control another person's healing that I know of....

lemurian: great point aikiwalk

guitarist: I second lemurian and aikiwalk. Like a good mother who focuses on her relationship with her children's father and the marriage, and thus gives her children the sense of security the family needs, being a conduit to G-d (rather than focusing on the person primarily) is better. The other way may lead to a disconnect with G-d if we're not careful.

Ishtahota: aikiwalk I think if we do our personal work and become clearer and cleaner then spirit will send more energy through us. Look at the Christ -- one of the clearest and cleanest, and what kind of ability did he have for healing. What kind of connection did he have for knowing the will of the creator!

FRAML: aikiwalk: Yes, we are requestors for intervention.

aikiwalk: that is an interesting way of describing it.

birdheart: FRAML... an example... someone who is struggling with alcoholism, often needs to "hit bottom" before they can begin heading "up" toward wellness... sometimes "hitting bottom" could be a positive answer to a prayer...

LadyV: Yet could it be that when many are gathered together in mind and heart...not especially, in body that those prayers get God's attention. He/She loves us...since we are part of them they will hear our love and concern for those that we know are sick... there is great power in prayer... especially for the sick... they might not get well or they might die... that is not our will... but somehow they were comforted or the family... somehow someway what mattered to them was touched.

FRAML: Let me rephrase my 2nd question: Can our prayers backfire on us, especially if we connect to the person we are praying for directly, instead of connecting to our individual deity and then to them. In another sense: by sending them the thought 'you need to get well,' they are hearing 'I'm sick."

birdheart: FRAML ... "you *need* to get well" definitely implies that someone is sick, and needy..."You are whole and in perfect health" might be a good alternative...

LEGS: I'm not an advocate for that type of conditional prayer.... where you "bespeak" the person well. then thank the Power that is...I believe so many people need to recognize their own illness before they can allow themselves to be healed...if they are in denial that they are ill, it is very difficult to help them whether on the prayer level or the medical profession level...and I find the two often hand in glove. I do believe in the old saw, "God helps those who help themselves." In a manner of speaking, if one stands on the railroad with the train bearing down on them and asks God to move the train away, when only one step by their self is all that is needed, why should God bother to "prove" Himself?

LadyV: FRAML are you saying that the message is mixed...here people are around my hospital bed and I am thinking if they are there I am near death...?

FRAML: LadyV: That might happen. I've heard of cases where some have gotten for the worse when a priest came in because they thought they were going to receive last rites, and thus were sicker than the doctors were telling them. & see Ben's reply.

Ben: FRAML: Yes. A strong telepathic command such as "Get well! Heal!" can be translated by the person's subconscious mind as the suggestion "You are sick" and thus make the person sicker. Also, I'm reminded of some cases in which un-good discarnates came to the person prayed for, because the deity (or image of deity) invoked wasn't a healer.

aikiwalk: I often hold the picture of the person with God as I pray...so it is not just myself and the person...but my acknowledging it is God and the person primarily and picture the person in wholeness...I get less "tied up" in the process somehow. Thank you, Ishtahota and FRAML.

FRAML: LEGS: Yes, an old "saw" which isn't actually in the Bible.

LEGS: I do not believe in the dismissal of doctors or medical care in single minded reliance on healing prayer. I believe God helps us with the training and knowledge of the physicians and pharmacists... I would not hold back any of my family from seeking professional medical care...would you?

Ishtahota: I do not know that my prayers backfire, but when people come to pray in my sweat lodges I warn them to be careful what they pray for. I learned that the hard way. I prayed for the perfect mate to come to me. For me that started 3 years of hell for me. And several bad relationships. I did wake up and see what was going on. What I came to realize was that I had to learn things and do a lot of growing before I could attract that perfect person. I can pray for anything but what am I going to have to go through to prepare myself to receive.

lemurian: LOL, Ishtahota, same thing happened to me. I have learned to ask my higher self and best future self to direct me now.

guitarist: Ishtahota and lemurian: it takes a lot of courage and insight for a person to realize that s/he needs to mature before receiving the answer to his/her prayer. I commend you both.

aikiwalk: I am spending tomorrow through Monday with girlfriend, 50, growing close to end of breast cancer war and she asks only for healing prayers....and I see her held close to God and comfortable and peaceful, content...that I can offer her. It is very hard.

guitarist: (((aikiwalk)))

LadyV: FRAML I think the touch of the hand is prayer...don't you. A happy smile is prayer. If someone was weeping over me I would be ordering the coffin. There are those that need this...however, it is part of the Church family and that's ok......it's wonderful to see them all holding hands and praying......and the one sick is relieved...that has a place also. I see your point and Ben's also...I think.

FRAML: LadyV: Yes, the squeeze of a hand and an 'I'm truly caring for you' look, can help a person; at least that has been my experience, as both a receiver and giver of it.

lemurian: FRAML, I get what you are saying.

suitESPirit: Just gently hold the gnarled hand of an older person at the grocery store, & say, "let me help you with that"...then smile and hold the hand for a few seconds...in silent prayer...That smile on the person's face shows you true love...

aikiwalk: tears falling...and it is good to be able to listen here tonight before I spend time with her -- and thanks, guitarist.

guitarist: (*(*(*(*May strength, courage, light, and love come to you in abundance, aikiwalk*)*)*)*) G-d be with you both.

LadyV: aikiwalk, that is not easy to do...to pray for and love when you know there is nothing you can do.....you are Blessed....your love is her healing prayer.....the healing is that of acceptance....she will need that energy prayer when she lets her spirit go....you have provided that flight for her with your love.....more than you may know...

FRAML: The hour is coming to a close and I still have 2 of my 3 questions left.

LadyV: I do better in private prayer. It is such a personal experience...it is like you are putting an invisible hand on the one that is ill and wanting to comfort them...and mentally you do this...one does not always say for whom they are praying...it might be the sad person in the grocery store...or anyone...breathing should be prayer...for all people...but that is what the mystics do...we do the best we can.

daCrone: LadyV ... I agree that prayer is not limited to words *S* ... being present/attentive with/to another who is in need makes a powerful statement that can touch hearts and souls.

lemurian: Everyone has made such good statements here. The main thing I have heard is: we are conduits. It is not up to our personal opinion of what the other needs. In fact, it can be not good for them. That is why I ask permission for my higher self and their higher self to do what is needed. The higher self would never be inappropriate.

Ishtahota: I like to think of prayer like this. How would my prayer change if I knew I was eternal. How would my prayer change if I knew this earth was just a school. How would my pray change if I really knew that I was loved unconditional and that I was never alone. These are concepts we say we believe, but do we walk our talk?

FRAML: Ishtahota: Good post.

LadyV: Ishtahota, as always, you see clearly....

lemurian: We are never in control though. That is why I ask when I pray that the other person's higher self take the control over them. Never can they be hurt and never are they alone.

Ben: lemurian: Yes, intercessory prayer is a conduit. I think of it like the Internet (and did before the Net came along): I'm a server who makes two connections: one is to the Source of unconditional love and healing power; the other is to the person in need.

lemurian: You guys are great!

FRAML: I am posting my 3rd question, because it closely follows on what we've discussed so far.

FRAML: #3 - Situation: A person in a chat room tells of a family member who is critically ill and (does or does not) ask for prayers for them. Several people say they will pray or send healing and then you say that you will also pray for the person. The requestor then tells you: "I reject your deity and do not want you to pray for my family member." What do you do? Publicly? Privately?

Ishtahota: If that is how they feel, I walk away. The reason I would walk away is because what they are really doing is baiting me into a power play. They are into drama and conflict as a way of getting power from outside of self instead of from source. I see this kind of thing in SWC all the time. This is a drama they have set up to learn something from spirit. If I overpower them and bust up the drama they are in it could take them years to set up another one with other people. I would have done harm at that point.

LadyV: Ishtahota -- and you have compassion enough to back off and allow...they will not know how blessed they are to have had you...

Ishtahota: LadyV, they get pissed.

LadyV: Ishtahota yes they do.....

LEGS: Their rejection of "my" deity, does not change what I believe He can do, so I would pray for the illness to be treated and healed, and for the rejecter that God's love would nourish her/him anyway!

suitESPirit: Doesn't THAT person need prayer then??? Remember...if your prayer is not accepted by the other (or their spirit,) it returns to you tenfold....

aikiwalk: I privately offer my relationship with them to God and ask Him to hold them tenderly so I do not hold them tightly.

daCrone: most things are not for me to mess with *S*...I hold in my heart those who are in need as well as those who care for them and love them...perhaps this is a form of prayer...perhaps it is a form of support...if someone asked me not to pray for them, what would I do? I would not want to aggravate them but I could not forget that there was need...I work a lot with situations and energy that is aggravated *s*

guitarist: I have never heard anyone say it quite that way, FRAML; I have heard of people saying, "Go ahead, pray if you want to; I don't believe in any gxd." In this case, I do. But, obviously, you do know someone or have heard of someone saying such a thing. I think I'd pray anyway, in private.

suitESPirit: guitarist, Yes...I would also...

LadyV: FRAML I have not had that experience...you mean the person asks and then tells you they don't want prayer because they reject your belief system...that is confusion.

Ben: FRAML: If someone says they reject my deity and don't want me to pray for them or their family, I say "OK" and stop talking to them -- and continue to pray for them privately, because my deity loves them unconditionally, regardless of what they say or do.

lemurian: FRAML is there something about your daughter now. Maybe you don't want any of us to pray for her?

FRAML: lemurian: No, I'm not asking folks NOT to pray for her. The reason for my question was from a personal experience, as guitarist guessed. Actually, that was the origin of my suggesting the topic last week when several of us gathered here and there was not a topic pre-planned. I tossed it out, and this is the 2nd week. I'll go for a third week if folks are interested.

suitESPirit: Very good FRAML...

lemurian: Yes, thank-you FRAML.

lemurian: FRAML, my daughter went into a coma about 8 years ago when she was 12. The only thing she remembered was that she was brought to a mountain and was given a choice. To stay with her family or come along. She made her choice and is with me today.

lemurian: When a family member gets sick. I have also learned to ask the higher self of the family and friends whom are dealing with it. I would have welcomed that when I was going through it because I was a basket case. I knew my daughter was dying right in front of me. It was confirmed when she came out of the coma. I will send love from my higher self to you and your family's higher self if that is okay with you, FRAML.

FRAML: lemurian: Thank you.

lemurian: Love sent. FRAML, thank you.

LEGS: Actually, I offer up prayer daily ... or several times a day .... for needs of others of which I am unaware, that they be blessed and guided, and loved in their walk, whoever they may be, wherever they are. I believe that being willing to pray for others is the first step in effective prayer. That God recognizes a willing servant and is able to use the resource most wisely.

LadyV: LEGS, I agree with you......if you walk your talk as was said earlier....you know that this is what is expected of you...and you do it naturally. There are many shadow prayers....that go on every minute....that is the way it is meant to be....course I get the sign of the cross over my head when I least expect it...[laughing] sinner that I am...

LEGS: LadyV, I still believe when a name of a friend or acquaintance 'floats' into my mind, during work or play, that perhaps a prayer for them is needed at that moment. What else can one do but beseech for them safety and health and happiness and guidance in mundane as well as vital decisions being thrust upon them? I believe God uses us and our strengths where we are. I also believe that He is fully capable of utilizing our weaknesses in a glorious manner.

Jello: LEGS: Re: weakness: I hope so, and I think so...though it can be "misused" to excuse one's own weaknesses, maybe? // LadyV: sign of the cross over your head?

LadyV: Jello, yes, I sometimes work with Nuns...and they do not always understand me....they love me though...dear souls that they are....and when they can they make the sign of the cross which is a method of the cross on the body...don't know just how to do it myself...and they tell me that the Mother Church is going to get me yet...

Jello: LadyV, alas, I'm a tad puzzled by what you said. :)

LadyV: Jello, sorry...guess I am used to people in the Church reminding me of my soul care....since to me it seems to be ok....but love is caring...and they do care....and that makes me smile at them....while I go my own way that is.....[grinning]

lemurian: FRAML, there could be a reason we are all here. There is a lot of love in this room right now.

FRAML: /topic OPEN Discussion on Prayer.

[The following comment was probably in response to several private messages.]

aikiwalk: Folks, thanks for the notes off the list. I don't know the system to know how to respond to you in a like manner...I am sorry. Thank you for the encouragement.

LEGS: I feel blessed to be here with so many concerned and caring persons, and am herewith expressing my gratitude to FRAML for the subject, and to all others for their seriousness in answering.

lemurian: Hey LEGS, I hear ya.

LEGS: Thank you FRAML for the chance to gather again on this topic... never enough about prayer can be learned...we must experience it and the answers...some of which certainly are not answers we would have chosen ourselves.

LadyV: FRAML, thank you.

suitESPirit: If any of you would be so moved, you could look up: James 5:13-16 before next week.. (Prayer of Faith)...

Jello: Here's a question...does God intervene when He hasn't been asked to intervene? I think it happens all the time.

LadyV: Jello, I hope so...our hides are saved sometimes because he does intervene without asking.

LEGS: Good question, Jello...I believe that He is always watchful and ready... the seeking of intervention does not have to be worded grammatically...or dramatically...to be a valid request...God knows when our anguished souls cry speechlessly to Him.

FRAML: LEGS: And something preferable to: If you were really saved, you'd wouldn't have to ask that question.

LadyV: LEGS, I agree with your comments.

LEGS: (((((((LadyV)))))) thank you for being here, and for your kindnesses to me and mine. *s*

Jello: I am even thinking of atheists who don't think about spirituality at all ...God still operates on their lives with the same compassion (I like to believe)...

Ben: Jello: Yes. I agree.

lemurian: Yes, Jello. I think some people who are here have just chosen a different focus then others. For me spirituality and Metaphysics is a major focus for myself. I am well versed though and have many friends whom I can relate to who do not have that focus.

FRAML: Jello: I think that God does intervene at times and we don't notice it. I also take that on the flip side and wonder if sometimes (and I see this in fundamentalist Christians) that God may intervene in their life and they think that it is from Satan or otherwise demonic, because they 'can't' believe in something happening because of their literal interpretation of scripture.

Jello: FRAML: a form of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, mayhap...

Ben: FRAMJ: Good point. I think of such errors as "sins of attribution" (i.e., to attribute something to Satan that Satan doesn't do, or to attribute to God something that God doesn't do.)

FRAML: Jello: That is what I think they may be unconsciously doing, in their 'fear of God's wrath' in applying Deuteronomy 18:9-22 to everything they don't know.

Jello: FRAML: Well, much of the Hebrew Testament, and parts of Acts and so on, are definitely full of very harsh, punishing actions by God and His agents.... :(

LadyV: Jello, the Universe works in order...whether the name is called God or whatever, they get helped along with the rest in their timing...it would be out of balance if they did not...

guitarist: Yes, Jello...today I read yet again someone quoting the Scripture: He makes His sun shine on everyone, and the rain fall on the just and unjust alike...or something close to that.

lemurian: Their higher self knows. I believe everyone is where they are in their own growth. I may plant a seed of my own belief; however, I don't expect them to get it. God/goddess all that is, is taking care of it all.

Jello: I don't know if this was touched upon in these chats, but (on the topic of prayer) I have read that belief and thankfulness that God is answering the prayer helps make the prayer that much more powerful.

LEGS: I have not been able to 'demand' of God, since one very great disappointment when I learned that our prayer's answer may not be what we had in mind while praying. I also have stopped making conditions for God to "perform" and gratefully accept that He is in command.... My grandmother used to soothe our fears with, "God's in His heaven, and all's right with the world." Now I recognize that was her own prayerful incantation, when she had no answers for us. She was a blessed woman.

lemurian: Great gramma knowledge, LEGS.

LadyV: LEGS' Grammy was wise....very wise.

Ishtahota: FRAML, get into something serious like person work?????????????????????

FRAML: Ishtahota: ??? I don't understand you. (Checking my mental density monitor ---H'mmm -- harder than lead)

Ishtahota: Lead is soft.

FRAML: Ishtahota: Yep, time for me to unmix my metaphors. As dense as lead (or perhaps depleted uranium).

guitarist: Ishtahota, are you thinking of a new topic, perhaps?

Ishtahota: FRAML -- or maybe duality??????????????????????

FRAML: Ishtahota: I don't really understand what folks mean when they speak of duality. I probably should, but it escapes me.

Ishtahota: FRAML Settling the inner conflict. It is really hard to see when we are in it. (Duality)

lemurian: What do you think duality represents to you, Ishtahota?

Ishtahota: lemurian, duality is a product of how we live and think. When we believe something and then we go out in everyday life and do things that are in direct conflict with those beliefs we enter into duality. It is the only way we can live with ourselves when we do not walk our talk and intent.

guitarist: Awesome, Ishtahota! Are you talking about going into duality because of our internal inconsistency (i.e., hypocrisy)?

lemurian: I like that, Ishtahota; integrity is what comes up for me.

FRAML: Ishtahota: Serious question--Would you like to lead a seminar session on duality?

Ishtahota: FRAML: You bet your BAZOOKA.

FRAML: Ishtahota: Please pick a date and tell it to Ben and me so that we can post the topic and date on our web pages. I'll send out reminder notices to folks.

Ishtahota: FRAML, it would take at least two.

FRAML: Ishtahota: That's fine. Just pick a pair of dates. I'll take next week to wrap up on prayer.

Ishtahota: FRAML and guitarist, I'll get with you on a date. I need to think on it to do it the way Ben does the classes.

lemurian: Well, let me know. I will be on holidays, going to Orlando and the Yucatan next week starting Thursday. (Yucatan pyramids)

FRAML: Ishtahota: That is fine. Good preparation is helpful. My impromptu topic was actually something I'd been thinking about for a week, with my daughter being in the hospital and having asked folks to pray for her. Thus in retrospect, not as exactly 'impromptu' as much as 'unscheduled.'

LadyV: Ishtahota -- and I thought duality was something fancy and fearful...I hear that word in chat very often...and did not know it was as simple as that...as you are saying.

Ishtahota: LadyV: It is one of those things you have to experience. But people can see the symptoms and comprehend them.

LadyV: Ishtahota, imagine so...thank you for agreeing to do the seminar...will look forward to it.

suitESPirit: Thank you, Ishtahota...Now I know...Didn't understand that word I always see in here...Duality...oh my...Very good topic for a seminar...

aikiwalk: I'm teaching in the morning so good night gentle folks. It has been a wonder to have had the chance to be with you this evening. Good night.

lemurian: goodnight, aikiwalk.

aikiwalk: thank you all for being here!!!!

LadyV: aikiwalk rest well. Thank you for coming to share with us. We are glad you came.

suitESPirit: aikiwalk (Remember you are blessed!!)

FRAML: Good night, aikiwalk. Thank you for your participation and thoughtful posts. Blessings with you tomorrow and Monday with your friend. And remember to count your blessings before you sleep.

lemurian: yes, aikiwalk -- sweet dreams

Ben: aikiwalk: Good night. Sleep well, awaken refreshed and ready to teach. *S*

lemurian: Yes to your friend, Aikiwalk.

guitarist: Blessings on you, aikiwalk!

LEGS: I hope you will join us here again, aikiwalk...and will read some of Ben's pages and the saved seminars at greyman's site also.

suitESPirit: FRAML...Thank you...I agree...

LadyV: LEGS, thank you...we were getting concerned about you. Where are you?

LEGS: In W. Texas this week, LadyV.... back to Missouri next week. *s* or may run out to Albuquerque to bring my mom back to Texas first...*S*

LadyV: LEGS I hope in the afterlife you have your own car...you live in one...for heaven's sake [teasing] the weather is still not so good...be careful.

Ben: ALL: Okay, I see that my typing fingers are sleepier than usual (even misspelled FRAML), so I'd better go get some rest. I have enjoyed this session. Peace and blessings to each of you. *adios*

LadyV: night, Ben -- hope all is well at your home...glad you stopped by...

guitarist: Good night, dear Ben! I'm glad you stopped by and were "just one of us seminarians." Blessings on you and yours...

FRAML: Good night, Ben. I'm glad you could make it tonight. I'll see you later today. // Thank you all for participating tonight. I think that we had an excellent discussion.

LadyV: FRAML you did good!!

FRAML: LadyV: I've got the rope under my shoulders instead of around my neck.

LadyV: FRAML ok...now you are back to normal...one-upping me again...you are feeling better. [smiling] We'll be waiting Wednesday for word about your daughter...we do not forget...hang in there.

FRAML: LadyV: Thank you. LEGS--have a safe journey this next week.

LEGS: Thanx to everyone commenting to me...I've missed being here...*s* nice to be "home" with my friends in this seminar. (*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*Friends&Friends2-B*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*} sweet dreams to all.

lemurian: So pray for me will ya!! (lol)

LadyV: lemurian ok...[smiling] I am trying to remember the nick...know you now from in here...friends then...

lemurian: We have such a huge spiritual family, pretty neat. Much Love.

FRAML: I can hear the pealing of the bells of St. Sealy's in the distance. It is time for me to answer their call.

Ishtahota: FRAML, night-night.

Jello: Take care!

FRAML: TO ALL: Remember to count your blessings before you sleep. *********POOOOOOOF**********