Amazon Room
04 Aug 2001
Topic: Pop Quiz

Ben< ALL: The pop quiz for tonight is centered on one question: What's wrong with this picture? YOUR TURN.


FRAML< The dogs are not necessarily evil.

Ben< FRAML: Okay. What else?

FRAML< I'm unsure if there is a reflection in the puddle of the cat, meaning that the cat could have been put in the picture afterward and it is not as it seems.

crystalwell< Ah, lol ... That pictures cute. I love animals.

Ben< crystalwell: It is cute. But did you see anything wrong with that picture?

selki< I really don't see anything wrong with the picture. An intelligent breed of dog, trained to sit and stay and avoid the temptation of a chase as the cat walks past them. Dogs and Cats, different species, not necessarily bitter enemies.

crystalwell< Absolutely nothing. The dogs were being kind and not attacking this little kittie. Not all big dogs attack. I'm really not sure. I view things a bit different. Nice to see you again. I'd like to observe, your seminars are quite interesting.

selki< The cat looks like it doesn't have any eyes or a face.

[Ben< selki: The cat is looking straight ahead. It has a white face between black areas on both sides right next to its eyes, and a black streak down its nose.]

FRAML< The dogs are not all looking at the cat. I think their focus is actually at something higher and to the left of the cat, thus the implication that the cat was not in the original picture.

Ben< FRAML: I don't think it's a composite picture. Several of the dogs are looking at the cat.

FRAML< Ben: yes, it does appear that some are looking directly at the cat.

crystalwell< "As I walk through the valley of the shadow of doubt, I'll fear no evil." Is that it?

Ben< ALL: What about the scripture quotation, and the caption?

crystalwell< Its not the original, my last post, is that it?


crystalwell< Is it like, "don't doubt yourself?"

selki< well the cat knows that by walking past these dogs he could possibly be tossed about like a football and/or lose his head ... but he'll take that chance and not fear but concentrate on getting well past them ... LOL

crystalwell< Is it like, "don't doubt yourself?"

Ben< crystalwell: The words quoted on the picture are in Psalm 23.

crystalwell< Ben, I understand, lol you got me then. This is a brain twister to me.

Bjays_Angel< May I join?

FRAML< Bjays_Angel: Yes.

dawnwolf< I can see the full moon from my window

FRAML< Even were I to walk in a ravine as dark as death I should fear no danger, for you are at my side. (from the New Jerusalem Bible)

crystalwell< The cat casts a reflection. I'm on aoltv, this picture is wider than most screens, look close, the kittie is part of the picture according to the reflection.

dawnwolf< I dislike this game.

Ben< ALL: OK, here's a hint. The scripture quotation is too short, and the caption is too long, so the message conveyed is misleading.

Ben< What are the next three lines of Psalm 23?

dawnwolf< I don't know

FRAML< "for You art with me" is missing.

Ben< FRAML: Yes. And ...

FRAML< Your staff and your crook (rod) are there to soothe me.

crystalwell< Ok, hope this isn't cheating, I couldn't recall it all: "yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff comfort me ...

crystalwell< staff and rod, doesn't that mean friends and family?

Ben< crystalwell: In Psalm 23, staff and rod refer to the shepherd's equipment.

crystalwell< Ben, oh. Someone told me two other things: one was its shadow of doubt and that its friends and family. I guess that's how others interpret. Hugs to them, and love to you and yours.

FRAML< You prepare a table for me, under the eyes of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup brims over.

crystalwell< Oh. lol. I'm not good with brain twisters. I seen some of that in the Psalms.

Ben< OK, the scripture quote supposes what the cat is thinking at this moment. More fully quoted: "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, FOR THOU ART WITH ME. THY ROD AND THY STAFF, THEY COMFORT ME. THOU PREPAREST A TABLE BEFORE ME IN THE PRESENCE OF MY ENEMIES. Therefore, what is being portrayed here isn't SELF-confidence. It is confidence in the unseen person who is using the camera to take that picture.

crystalwell< Yeah, I never read the rest of that. Thanks for the invite.

dawnwolf< that is a fairly subjective interpretation

Ben< dawnwolf: Sure, the whole thing is subjective interpretation of what the cat is thinking. Whoever put the quote and caption on that picture was conveying the message that this is a picture of SELF-confidence. But I don't think so. I think the message of that (excellent) picture is confidence in the person, on the part of the cat, and obedience on the part of the dogs.

FRAML< the photographer, or the person who saw the photo and decided to caption it, had the thought.

crystalwell< That makes sense.

FRAML< obedience and self control for the dogs.

Ben< FRAML: Yes, obedience from previous discipline that now results in self-discipline by the dogs. They probably would like to chase the cat, just to see it run, but the boss told them to sit and stay. So, being good dogs, that is what they are doing.

dawnwolf< Ben, but the whole idea of 'enemies' doesn't necessarily mean that ...

crystalwell< I seen pictures like that, lol, my first thought was ahhh cute. But then I thought what dog doesn't like to chase or tease a cat. Never thought of it as a mislead caption of the photograph, that's why its a POP quiz ... lol.

Ben< By the way, did you notice that four of the dogs are looking at the camera? That means they are looking at the person behind the camera.

dawnwolf< yes Ben I noticed that

crystalwell< I noticed the last one, I seen looking not at the cat, that would mislead you. Thinking the caption was about the cat or the dogs. Not the photographer.

dawnwolf< I still don't think the cat was there in the first place

FRAML< Ah yes, 4 of the dogs in the back of the picture are looking at the photographer. I re-examined and two of the dogs are looking directly at the cat.

Ben< crystalwell: There is an axiom in science: always consider the observer, whether seen or unseen. Oftentimes, the presence of an observer has a significant influence on an experiment.

guitarist< Yes, Ben -- this has been referred to as the Hawthorne effect, among other things. (Hi everybody)

crystalwell< Ben, that's what my second guess was, the first was cute! second hm why were they silent not running after the kitty, then the third dawned on me when you said Hint the caption and the dogs looking at the camera.

Ben< ALL: My purpose in presenting this exercise was also to convey a message: Beware of spin. Don't just swallow what you see. Look with your mind as well as your eyes. That is a key to discernment.

crystalwell< More or less, think twice? Things often have a double meaning. Not what it seems.

guitarist< Ah, spin. That favorite tool of marketers. :)

FRAML< Spin ... H'm turning straw into gold was one kind in the past, and still is being done today.

guitarist< At least they try, FRAML. I don't think anyone has succeeded in turning straw into gold, just spinning straw. *LOL*

Ben< FRAML: Hah! Yes. And what some of the dot.coms have been spinning into gold isn't even straw.

HungrySoul< Hi everyone. On Ben's last point ... one must also be careful not to read too much into stuff. "Some times a cake is just a cake." (a quote from a TV show)

Ben< HungrySoul. Yep. Good point. Thanks.

MysticLoon< what is the seminar about today ... I don't quite understand.

FRAML< MysticLoon: Click on Ben's name and examine the picture. Then find out what is wrong with it. Was the subject of the pop quiz.

Ben< MysticLoon: Hello. We started at 10:00 pm Eastern time tonight. I asked everyone to click on my name, study what they found there, and then come back with their answers to the question "What's wrong with this picture?"

crystalwell< FRAML, if people could or do spin straw to gold, would it be sold to the highest bidder? Or that person questioned? not just in good manners either, people are feared for such feats. That is if one was found to do that.

FRAML< crystalwell: I was thinking about the old fairy tale about the girl who was to spin straw into gold or something bad would happen to her. As far as "spin" it is what one hears after a political speech in which folks try to make it seem to be more than it might have actually been.

crystalwell< FRAML, ah, I see what you mean now.

guitarist< I just looked at the picture, and noticed that the cat is walking with its back to the dogs, not so much past them. Perhaps it's seeking the photographer's protection from them, or preparing to climb the nearest tree. A note: I once took a picture of a lady feeding a squirrel. It seemed as calm as could be; she'd been feeding it for years. The lady never saw the squirrel again, though, because the click of my camera must have scared it away. So, I learned that animals can be more afraid than they appear in a still picture.

HungrySoul< The cat is facing two fears. Not only is it surrounded by dogs, but it is walking through a puddle. (cats don't like to get wet.)

MysticLoon< I love dogs and cats. but I think I have worked it out. The puddle underneath the cat is, in fact not a puddle at all. Instead it is a product of the cat's fear. Yees, the cat has done a piddle. What the picture is saying, is that its okay to be frightened, but to put yourself in that situation in the first place is the key. maybe *grin*

guitarist< MysticLoon: do you mean, " ... but to *not* put yourself in that situation ... " ? Anyway, I noticed that it must have just rained in the picture. Cats don't like rain very much either. Which is the bigger threat, the dogs or the water? I'm not sure the cat would have done a piddle and not looked more frightened.

Ben< guitarist: I think the photographer called the cat, and the cat is coming to the photographer even though it isn't exactly comfortable with all those dogs sitting there.

MysticLoon< I think that cat is Koooooool.

Ben< MysticLoon: The puddle could be puppy-piddle. *S*

MysticLoon< interesting idea. The dogs piddled ... and then the cat, though in mortal danger ... not only walked calmly by them but also walked into one of their piddle stains. in fact, I also notice a slight discoloration on the puddle, near the center. I think the cat has also piddled on top of it. What a cat!

MotherLight< Hello room, Ben, Show me a dog that's not afraid of a cat anyway.

Ben< MotherLight: A few dogs of my acquaintance kill cats, most like to chase cats, and a few are afraid of cats.

FRAML< Ben: yes, we once had a stray collie show up on the farm, and it began killing all our barn cats. I ended up making sure he didn't kill any more.

crystalwell< Ben, FRAML, thanks ... Have a great seminar everyone! by! poof

FRAML< Bye crystalwell.

guitarist< I think the discoloration is in fact the reflection of the dogs from the photographer's point of view. I don't think anybody peed. They'd be smelling each other's odors if they had.

MysticLoon< I have just noticed something else. The cat has its tail high in the air and its bottom showing. If you estimate where the bottom is pointing, it appears that the dogs who are in that spot are looking away. In fact, one of the dogs seems to be looking at the photographer in desperation. A defense mechanism by the cat? hmmmm

MotherLight< The psalm don't apply because the dogs are not a threat

HungrySoul< I think those dogs are part of a training program and that the dogs and cat are accustomed to each others presence.

hippiethings< It looks like a police dog training film or something like that. They turned the cat loose to test them for attention. Some are not looking at the cat and some are. The ones that look at the cat fail the test. Is that it? Do I win a prize?

FRAML< hippiethings: No prizes here but discussion and thinking.

hippiethings< Aw shucks!! just kidding.

guitarist< Anyway, everyone, I have to leave now. :( Must get up at 5:45 a.m. eastern time. Very nice little quiz, Ben.

FRAML< Good night guitarist. Sleep well at Beth Sim'mons

guitarist< And you, when you depart, FRAML, sleep well at St. Sealy's. ***poof***

MysticLoon< Actually, maybe the cat's getting ready to ...

Ben< OK, to recap: I said the scripture quote was too short, and the caption was too long. Psalm 23 says "I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." This picture isn't portraying self-confidence on the part of the cat. It is portraying the cat's confidence in the person behind the camera -- and also the dogs' obedience and self-discipline.

[Ben< hippiethings: I think you're on the right track. OBEDIENCE TEST would be an accurate caption for this picture. The dogs can look wherever they please, but if they move, they fail the test -- and the cat leaps to the person behind the camera for protection.]

FRAML< Thank you Ben. It is now time for me to depart for the night. Good night everyone.

hippiethings< me too, bye

MysticLoon< byeeeeeeeeeeeee!


LadyV< actually I have house guests with kids and they say there is nothing wrong with the picture ... the windows on the building are colored except for the door ... the scripture is God talking ... they figured that was down pat anyway ... does that help?

Ben< ALL: Peace and blessings to each of you. Good night.

greyman< Namaste, dear ones. Hope I can get an "incomplete" from the professor!

LadyV< greyman, I just arrived myself ... and showed the picture to the kids visiting ... sorry I am late as well.

greyman< LadyV, It should be in the Review Log by 9 AM Eastern Standard time.

MotherLight< Night all *S*

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