Spiritual Web Chat: Amazon
Sat, 08 Dec 2001
Ben's Seminar
Open Forum, 10pm EDT

FRAML< The American, Walker, was captured fighting with the Taliban. Is he prepared to meet the ultimate responsibility for his own actions as a traitor? Should he be excused from his decision? Food for thought.

guitarist< If teenagers in the US could be tried and sentenced for anthrax hoaxes, why shouldn't Walker, at the very least, be presented with what could happen to him? On the other hand, making him a martyr could create an opportunity for a backlash, since he isn't quite 21 years old. I think we need to become more acquainted with him so that we can get a feel for whether he should be treated as an adult or not -- and if not, should the parents be brought in and held responsible? Then, the government could figure out what to do with him and/or them.

guitarist< Just off the top of my head. :)

redwarrior< ummmmmmmmmm *S*

greyman< Namaste' dear ones.

LEGS< Namaste greyman and LadyV ... ***HUGS***

selki< ****OFF TO Amazon where it's quiet ...

selki< LOL that was supposed to be posted in da henge ... M'I bad ...

selki< guitarist, treated and tried as an adult?????? Please, they are trying 13 year olds as adults, this man committed an act of treason, traitors USED to be shot for that.

FRAML< selki--Yep, sounds like a good fate for Johnny "Jihad" Walker.

CaptainBaby< hi peoples

FRAML< hi Capt, LEGS & selki.

LEGS< How interesting, CaptainBaby ... when my second husband went into WWII, they required his birth certificate as his Name was initials only ... but birth certificate just said Baby ... by then he was already a SGT and one of the mail clerks let out the news, and for awhile he was called SGT BABY

CaptainBaby< Hello Framl

FRAML< It looks like greyman & verity1 made it to NYC today. He has a couple of pictures of the WTC area attached to his name.

FRAML< I'll see you folks tomorrow. I'm signing off to go to bed. I'm feeling tired tonight.

selki< Hello everyone ... was hanging a last supper in the kitchen, HI FRAML LEGS CaptainBaby

selki< good Night FRAML.


LEGS< Interesting pics

guitarist< Hello, everybody // Selki, of course you are right. I'm not feeling sorry for Walker -- just trying to see the issues the people who deal with him might be facing.

CaptainBaby< Hello Legs ... *S* how are you?

LEGS< wow FRAML is not usually so abrupt ... hope he is well

guitarist< And the last people I remember being executed for treason were the Rosenbergs (Ethel and Julius) in WWII. There may have been others since, but I don't know about them. That's a sore spot for me, BTW!!!

LEGS< I'm fine tonite ... though it is pretty cold ... and supposed to be down to 28 tonite here in west TX

LEGS< ((((((guitarist and yankl))))))))

guitarist< (((LEGS)))

LEGS< guitarist did you see the special the other nite on the current info on the Rosenbergs ... saying he was definitely a spy but there was nothing to convict her at all ...

LEGS< I'm gradually coming around to the feeling that execution is too easy for some criminals, and too harsh for others. But I don't want people to go unpunished when they are proven at what they are charged for and judged guilty. I don't like the non-jury findings however ... do you?????

selki< ((guitarist))((yankl))

LEGS< no comment? alremkin ... I'm surprised

selki< LEGS difficult situation all around, he did not give up his citizenship, he converted to Islam, wondering if the seperation of church and state come in here somehow ... and religious freedom.

LEGS< {*{*{*{*{*Yopo*}*}*}*}*}*}

Yopo< G'd evening, ALL *S* Hi LEGS

selki< (((Yopo)))

guitarist< Yes, I've been following that story, LEGS. What bothers me is that spies only seem to die (Rosenbergs) or get long jail sentences beyond reason (Pollard) when they're Jews. Maybe we ought to execute Greenglass too. He really deserves it -- more than the others. // Correction: Rosenbergs in the Cold War (1950s). (thanks, Yankl darling)

selki< alremkin~~~hello

Yopo< I couldn't remember if this was gonna be 9 or 10 Eastern ... Hi guitarist, selki ...

Yopo< Nor can I remember who Pollard or Greenglass are ...

guitarist< (((Yopo))) (((alremkin))) (((selki)))

LEGS< guitarist, I fear you will always see it that way ... because you look for it. There have been rediculously long sentences passed in TX ... like 400 yrs, and such to prevent parole ... since a percentage of the sentence must be served (not on Jewish persons)

alremkin< LEGS: While I realize that judgements are seemingly required at this level, I choose to judge as little as pssible as my understanding is that we are judged by God using the standard of our own judgements.

Yopo< alremkin, yankl *S* Hope everyone is doing well this evening. We're finally to get some seasonal temperatures tonight. Low of 25 degrees later. It was 68 only a few days ago, and we've yet to see snow ...

guitarist< FYI everybody: Jonathan Pollard, convicted for spying on the US for Israel in the 1980s, has been in jail for 17 years, most of it in solitary confinement. David (?) Greenglass is Ethel Rosenberg's brother who turned them in to save himself. He was a spy too.

selki< didn't they used to shoot spies too????

LEGS< {*{*{*{*{*{*{*{*greyman*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*}*} those are good pics ...

Yopo< Howdy, greyman *S*

yankl< Maybe we could discuss where the line is between freedom of expression/speach and an act of treason.

LEGS< Gee Yopo, we are expectin 28 here tonite ... only got up to 53 here today

selki< yankl well, what about the term turncoat ... wasn't that a term used in the Revolutionary war ... when someone fought for the "other" side ...

greyman< Hello all. {{{LEGS}}} {{{guitarist}}}

Yopo< Hello LadyV *S* I missed you in the 'henge by about 4 minutes last night. Shouted at you, but I think you were already out of earshot ...

greyman< Hi Yopo!

alremkin< Spying has always been a dangerous occupation, I like to consider myself a spy for God. I believe the time for fence sitting is coming to an end. We will all have to show our true "colors" and face the consequences.

LEGS< Click greyman's name for NYC pics Yopo and guitarist

LadyV< I remember seeing in an old Life Magazine in a library the excution of an American by the men in his troop. I believe it was on Military Justice. I found that so startling.

LEGS< ((((LadyV)))) giving you hugs now because we have an open Forum tonite ... less restricted as I read it *S*

LadyV< Yopo sorry I missed you. I was on your site today ... touched by the poem that I had missed reading.

guitarist< LEGS, you may be right, I may be looking for it. But, the MSNBC article that talked about the Rosenbergs said it explicitly: the Rosenbergs were the *only* people executed for spying for the Soviet Union. I'm sure there were others! As for those ridiculous Texas sentences, how many of them does the rest of the country hear about? I hadn't heard of such things before you said it just now. I'm sorry that I'm coming off so harshly.

Yopo< guitarist, Oh yeah, I vaguely recall Pollard now. Seems pretty harsh. Israel not exactly being an enemy state. I'd likely go easier on spies, who spy motivated by loyalty to the states they spy for. Have a lot more contempt for those who do it for money. Though that might be a motivation "the powers that be" might feel more sympathetic with ... *ahem*

LadyV< LEGS thank you ... [smiling]

yankl< We hold freedom of speach sacred, but when it extends to freedom of expression such as what happened in Seattle during the WTO meetings and in Philadelphia during the Republican National Convention, the functioning of normal society is disrupted and innocent people are put in danger. Does this constitute treason?

Ishtahota< What is the topic?

greyman< If you double click on my name you will see two pictures posted. Double click on them and your browser should display the jpeg pictures. It's ironic that verity1 & I are watching a skating competion on NY cable that is being held 15 miles from our home in Maryland. *G*

Yopo< LadyV, Which poem was that? *curious* I've been doing a bit of tidying up there this week ...

LadyV< Yopo, the one of the Orange Lilies.

LEGS< LadyV, my Leoprechaun says that was in 1944 as he remembers, and it was for desertion as he had tried to run away from the fighting ... only one ever killed in WWII for desertion In Nam, they called it battle fatigue and hospitalized them.

guitarist< (((Ishtahota))) (((LadyV)))

Yopo< greyman You took the pictures?

LadyV< LEGS, be darned ... now I can put the picture with history. Wonder if that would be the case now ... since we know to sit on them until the medic comes ... yes ... rereading the last sentence ...

LEGS< *laughing* greyman ... our best to you and Verity, who must already be homesick watching the skating instead of being out on the town ... *HUGS*

LadyV< Hi guitarist and all ...

guitarist< (((LEGS))) how is Leoprechaun???

LadyV< Where is FRAML? This is very rare for him not to be here. Is he ill or traveling?

greyman< Yopo, Yes verity1 and I ran a spirit rescue mission @ ground zero.

selki< LEGS, but this Walker did not desert, he joined the opposition to fight against his country, and the northern Alliance ... he was being questioned by the American CIA agent that was killed in the prison battle. So, should this man be tried for treason?

guitarist< FRAML was tired and retired early.

Yopo< LadyV, Ah, that one. It came out of a conversation with sety on ICQ one summer night. The conversation suddenly came back to me the next summer, when the lilies bloomed again.

selki< too much activity in this house ... I think I missed something ... sorry if my post is not consistant with the conversation ...

LEGS< (((((guitarist)))))) somewhat better today, been playing his music keyboard some ... and cooking up something that smells wonderful in the kitchen now ... He is an amazing person. You can tell him the name of a town almost anywhere, and he will tell you how to get there and what the area looks like. Sorta photographic geographic memory ... but can't spell worth a hoot!!! *G*

LadyV< Yopo it is one that catches the heart unawares ... she still belongs to us ... [smiling]

Yopo< selki I hope he isn't. He is little more than a child, probably misguided by idealism.

LEGS< It is a wonderful poem, Yopo, very well done ... someday I hope you will let me carry it with appropriate credit to your website ... in PSO

guitarist< Bottom line, I guess he should, Selki. After all, people are serving jail time for far less (as some have pointed out). // Yopo, thank you for making sense re: Jonathan Pollard. I'm not saying he's the best human being on the planet or anything -- in fact, I've heard he is quite the slimeball -- but he has more than paid his debt to society by now.

LEGS< Hello Kotoki ...

Yopo< LadyV *S* Thank you. I am very pleased that you liked it.

selki< Yopo, be that as it may, he had a choice, and at his age he should have been able to understand that.

LadyV< I thought about this ... the man that died did not expect to see an American there ... and I wondered for a moment if he was caught off guard or assumed he could depend on the aid of one of his own ... it troubled me that he was left standing alone ... no man should stand alone ever ... to me the back should be covered by his command.

Kotoki< hi all ... selki, Benedict Arnold. Not sure about this Walker, but something that really strikes me is he's only 20 years old ... and that question of separation of church and state is *very* important. My question is, was he willingly fighting AGAINST the United States, when we were bombing Afghanistan? Or was he fighting with the Taliban/Al-Quaida against the Northern Alliance (separate as far as I'm concerned). But yes, was he a member of Al-Quaida? IF so, well ... anyway, it will be difficult because of the situation. Also, I read that his parents are willing to "go anywhere". Where were they when he decided to go to Afghanistan? Did they support his decision? Did they know his intentions?

LadyV< Then on the other hand ... the boy that I saw looked very fragile emotionally, he said 'his heart went out to them'

selki< LadyV right, I don't think they even knew he was an American until later.

guitarist< There will be some issues at any treason trial of John Walker. Like his youth, and the possibility that he didn't know what he was doing. The trial (or whatever public revelations that come out) will reveal that, hopefully.

selki< Kotoki, exactly what about the freedom of religion? People settled this country for freedom of religion, that boy was free to practice any religion he wanted, As an American, I am free to worship the chair I'm sitting on if I want too. So, what will happen.

LEGS< LadyV, she wanted us to know she is with us ... as another who passed the sixth is to her friends ... In the January issue, I will have a poem written to this Elisa ... a former co-worker of the author ... whom I met in another spiritual chat room ... James vanPraagh's chat. ... It was inspired by reading the one I wrote in 97 and am carrying this month, In The Garden ... I will let you know when the January issue is online ...

guitarist< (((greyman)))

LadyV< I did notice the compassion on the face of the man helping him. It was that of a Father's look ... some of the photographs speak volumns. This boy risked it all for those people. They surely loved him.

LadyV< LEGS thank you!!

guitarist< (((Kotoki)))

Yopo< selki, I've thought about that some. I guess I might change my thinking, once I know more details. The way I understand things so far, though, he was involved with the Taliban before the events of 9/11, and might not even have known there were American troops on the ground ...

LadyV< LEGS, I would like to meet James VanPraagh He has the use of symbols that intrigue me. He turns his head about to listen ... he seems a gentle sort of person.

guitarist< Hello, tjones and justin24.

selki< Yopo that's a possibility ... I haven't heard much on the news about him today.

selki< Hello~~~~ tjones and justin24

Kotoki< selki, believe me when I say w/my family's history, separation of church and state is VERY important. But the question will mainly be, did this young man willfully choose to fight with the Al-Quaida? I suspect that this will be a case for the supreme court, even if it is held militarily. Yes we are all free to worship as we choose, the question is, does that freedom extend to living in another country and fighting against the country of your citizenship? (Don't forget as a citizen you are sworn to defend and protect your country, NOT fight against it in a foreign land.)

selki< Yopo but then you can't depend on an accurate report from the media all the time either ...

tjones< hello ... i thought were no greetings here ...

LadyV< I was moved to want to express sorrow to the man that entered from the US on his own ... to try and rally forces at the start of the war. The newspaper said that US helicopters tried to cover him as he rode his horse to escape. He was hung later by the enemy Government. His name was Han I think ... he haunted me for days ... I thought ... he risked it all for peace as well. His family lost him ... he was a hero ... to try.

LEGS< Yes, and he is very easy to visit with in his chat room ... not isolated or stuck up at all ... if he receives a message for someone in the chat room, he just comes right out and delivers it ... he has spoken to both K'am and to me

guitarist< From what I read, Kotoki, Walker's parents knew he was going to Afghanistan and supported him in being a Muslim. As for al-Qaida and the Taliban, I don't think they knew the details.

Yopo< selki That's for sure!

LadyV< selki I agree ... half of what you read is not always true either ...

LEGS< I'm going to eat ... will BBL ... the Leoprechaun has no patience when the food is ready ... *G*

guitarist< LEGS that would be interesting. How do you get to the chatroom?

greyman< Good night dear ones. Pretty ragged out tonite.~~

Kotoki< I'm also wondering just what this guy Walker was doing in Afghanistan, how involved he was in the planning if he'd been there since before the attacks, I mean being an american he could have useful information for the Al-Quaida. (thinking we won't ever know most of the answers, as they will probably be kept quiet)

LadyV< greyman get some rest ... sorry you are under the weather.

selki< Kotoki I am wondering how they will handle it if at all. My concerns are that he will be tried by a military tribunal, but then I'm sure a defense team would use the freedom of religion presidence(sp), civil rights infringement, and yes would be Supreme court trial too ... this is going to be a good one for the books.

guitarist< (((good night, greyman and verity)))

LadyV< selki good point.

selki< (((greyman))) good night, rest well.

LadyV< Hi John ... you are new to me.

Kotoki< and don't forget that anything we hear about Walker will have been cleared through the Pentagon ... (as with the gulf war).

Yopo< Good night, greyman! (I was about to ask LEGS the chatroom address too, but she disappeared to quickly ... )

selki< Hello john777

alremkin< Good night everyone.

LadyV< I think in this country to not allow the clergy to be on Jury Duty is a good idea. In this world we have to have separation and a place for all to go ... regardless.

Yopo< G'd night, alremkin ...

Kotoki< selki, apparently the military doesn't even have a true designation of battlefield detainee ... they are affording him all the rights under the Geneva Convention. I wonder if he truly was against America or just supporting the religious beliefs that he chose? (this is going to be some legal precedent alright.)

LadyV< not sure why I mentioned that ... thinking though, that those that are Priest that know me are praying for my sinner soul ... and I have them on my mind [smiling and teasing]

Yopo< LadyV Hmm ... Clergy aren't allowed? Or have the right to decline? I wasn't aware of anything about that ...

LadyV< Kotoki good point. Religion can sway ... it has power. I have to think about what you said just now.

Kotoki< who was this man who went to afghanistan alone from the US? (was he a US citizen?)

Yopo< Kotoki Bet you this is ONE guy that won't be judged in secret by some durn military tribunal ...

LadyV< Yopo I know that the Priests in the Episcopal Church do not go on jury duty. I heard that from a Priest. Unless I misunderstood. He may have meant the right to decline. Since he hears confessions ... might not be a good idea.

guitarist< This case might also bring out what is essentially Islam and what is extreme.

selki< You know what Kotoki, at his age, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was doing it for his newly found religious beliefs, sometimes a convert can be the worst fanatic about his religion. Just my opinion.

LadyV< I doubt the man in question will put up a defense ... or even argue. He had a look in his eyes of one that knew what he wanted. He will not dispute. That is my feeling here.

Kotoki< Yopo, don't be too sure, the fact that he was present during that uprising that killed a CIA operative, and he was an american citizen, if he had something to do with that death, he can also be brought up on charges in federal court of murdering a federal agent. (There are way too many variables in this case) including WHY did he not speak when he was being interrogated? Why did that riot start during this interrogation? There are many unknowns.

selki< guitarist ... good point, but I've heard muslims say that what the taliban represented was not true islam ... did you ever read the koran? Just wondering ...

guitarist< I'd like to see the progression of a young boy who converted to Islam to its most extreme. It might tell us a lot about the distance between a "regular" Muslim and an "extreme" or "Islamist" Muslim.

Kotoki< LadyV, I haven't seen a close enough picture of him to see his eyes. //// selki, I don't know ... his age makes me wonder what kind of life he's lead in the last few years.

selki< Under the constitution, he committed treason.

Yopo< LadyV He presents a unique problem for the Bush administration. He might be a very articulate young man. I'm sure he has seen things. And I'm sure they wonder what might happen if he returns to the U.S., and Larry King or somebody gets ahold of him for an interview ...

Kotoki< I asked a friend who is muslim what is the difference between Islam and Muslim. She said that Islam is the religion ... Muslim is a person who follows that religion.

guitarist< selki, I have read the first book (the longest one) of the Koran. I intend to read the rest, as I can stand it. (It's pretty intense, to put it mildly.)

LadyV< Kotoki I did see them on CNN he has a soft voice ... very gentle ... so childlike ... his eyes were like fire ... doe eyes ... you will see them when itis allowed to photograph him.

Kotoki< Yopo, he won't be leaving a military base for a while ... and right now he'll be kept in the military bases with most likely NO access. For the same reason that Bush asked that bin Ladens statements not be released. Anyone that is part of the Al-Quaida living in this country, this young man could be a positive/supporting element in their thinking rather than a deterent.

Yopo< Kotoki Truth be told, I'm not completely sure how the death of the C.I.A. agent might play out. He was there to interrogate prisoners. No doubt the prisoners suspected they might all be killed by their captors. In fact, many of the dead found in the ruins of the prison appeared to have been bound, as I recall.

LadyV< Yopo good point. I have thought of rebels since history was recorded. In Russia ... in China ... and so on ... these are men that are leaned ... there is a word intelligisia ... spelling off there ... live in the head ... with a little bit of idealism thrown in ... and lots of hormones to fight to go along with it. Sometimes they change the world ... and sometimes ... they make errors ... but the fire burns for better or for worse in the nation that come from.

selki< guitarist intense yep to say the least ...

Kotoki< Yopo, do you know how many operatives are in Afghanistan right now??? Many, and in other countries.

guitarist< *intelligentsia*

guitarist< *smiling at LadyV*

LadyV< Yopo that reminds me ... if you find a copy read Pearl Bucks book "What American Means to me" I found a copy in a University half-price store. It is remarkable the grasp she had of present day conditions. She states then in the early 40's that as a nation we had best be focusing on the part of the world we are dealing with now ... and they with us.

guitarist< ***Hello, ssa, oir and Kontiki***

LadyV< yes ... intelligentsia ... thank you.

Yopo< Kotoki I have no clue. Nor I have a clue about how many Afghans have died in the course of the bombing campaign. That estimate is conspicuous by its absence. The news is both filtered and cooked.

selki< ssa~~~~~~`oir and Kontiki~~~~~~~~~~~hello

LadyV< I am so sorry for the family of this boy. Its so hard to see him as a man ... he is hardly that ... but yet as selki has said he is old enough to make decisions for himself.

Kotoki< selki I think the main question will be, was he fighting the NORTHERN ALLIANCE, or was he fighting for the Al-Quaida? (The Taliban/Northern Alliance fighting has been going on for a long time ... and this has had nothing to do w/the USA til the Al-Quaida made it our business, then the Taliban supported the Al-Quaida).

selki< well, we're fighting terrorism ...

Kotoki< LadyV, he is old enough to make his own decisions, yes they probably feel pain for their son, but do they know what his position was on the terrorist attacks on Sept 11?

selki< LadyV I can only say that because I have two sons. They are in the same age group and they make their own decisions ... most of the time they do a pretty darn good job.

guitarist< Kotoki, LadyV: From what I understand, Walker supported the attacks.

selki< He may not have had any position on 911 attack, but, at the same time, who knows, what if he would have been training for a suicide bomber? who knows ... I doubt we'll ever know the true story.

LadyV< selki that is true. I was thinking that in this country we all have to abide by the Law. If we want to change the law we go through channels in our Government to have it done. There is something so fair in this. I heard the President or I am not sure how he is addressed from Israel speaking after the terrorist bombings and he said he was amazed that the Americans were so united. I think the reason is that we all know the punishment in our laws that we agree on in our constitution ... and that is equal for all ... it is not I standing there ... it is Us.

LadyV< Kotoki that is true.

LadyV< selki good for you to have raised such fine young men!! [smiling] I am glad for you.

Kotoki< Yopo, all I can say to that is that 1/ I did not support us going over there, but I do understand the reasoning. 2/ how many afghans have died in the last years under the Taliban? (Do you know they were burying women in mass graves ALIVE? It will be up to Afghanistan and those who live there to reassemble their government that was ousted by the Taliban. We didn't choose this, it was thrust on us. We *did* give them more than a few chances to hand over bin Laden, and also we made perfectly clear what our intentions were. So it can not be said that they were not fully warned ... UNLIKE the ones in the WTC, Pentagon and Flight 93.

selki< You're right LadyV, and the Afghan people had no government, only oppression. We are there to defeat the oppression, and help them to establish a government. From what I've read and seen the country needs someone to help them.

Yopo< guitarist Hmm ... I hadn't heard that. I think maybe we need to be careful, forming opinions that may be based on other people's opinions. I recently heard GreenPeace referred to as a front for eco-terrorists, for example ...

Kotoki< well, point blank, if Walker supported the attacks on Sept 11 then he should be tried, convicted and sentenced for high treason at the very least!

Kotoki< Yopo, and your point is? (regarding GreenPeace?) There are radicals and extremists in *EVERY belief/religion/society.

selki< LadyV, beeeeeelieve me It wasn't an easy task ... too bad they didn't come with a book ...

LadyV< selki that is what the Government is saying. The Russians said you can't get the enemy period ... they did not it appears ... for however, they saw the enemy ... too, many mole holes ... but even the mole runs out of cover if you keep following him with a hoe ... I know that ... fought a little rascal all day in my radish patch ... [grinning]

selki< Kotoki that's sayin it straight up!~

LadyV< selki a book ... Naw! you were a great role model ... you did not need a book to raise those boys ...

guitarist< I think it was Shimon Peres, Israel's Foreign Minister, as I recall from the Jerusalem Post, who commented that there are many voices, but one army in America, whereas the Palestinians have only one voice, but many armies. (And the Israelis suffer from -- it's so bad it's a Jewish joke -- having more opinions than people! And they still keep on like that even in wartime, whereas in America we all stand together in wartime.)

Yopo< Kotoki I don't mean to give the impression that I'm opposed to what we've done or anything. Personally, I felt trememdous animosity toward the Taliban long before 9/11, and am glad to be for the most part rid of them. I just resent the slanted media coverage of events. We need the truth, regardless of whether or not it reflects favorably on the political and military establishment. At the moment, I think that erosion of our civil liberties is a much bigger threat than terrorism.

LadyV< guitarist Peres ... yes!

Kotoki< LadyV, I can say for certain that we have every available person working on bin Laden. (not only in Afghanistan). I've learned things this week that make me wonder what the hell is wrong with people? (and if this is what Americans went through during WWII).

guitarist< hello, Skycatcher!

Yopo< The GreenPeace comment was only intended as an example of how our very legitimate concerns about our security might be used to further agendas that AREN'T actually related to our collective security. Only to the security of specific special interests.

guitarist< I'm going to check out how I gathered that Walker supported the 9/11 attacks. BRB

LadyV< Yopo I have concerns in this also. I took time one year to read the reports of Journalist in World War II because I wanted to understand the history of the Great Wars. I understood from reading that in those days silence was necessary ... even now we do not speak openly of who we know or where they are ... we refrain. This is War ... this is blood in the ground. No fooling around with some jerk looking good on the Television with too much talk ... yet, there is a warning about our civil rights here ... I think Congress will monitor that ... and the Newspaper editorial pages are speaking up ... we are not a nation of complete clones ... we are too independent for that ... we will monitor it ... pray that we do anyway.

Kotoki< Yopo, right now the biggest threat IS terrorism. There have been things happening that are not being made public ... and there is foreign involvement (meaning support by a foreign faction). There have been at least one ship carrying nuclear warhead missles stopped a few miles off the coastal US waters ... targeting a specific US city ... among other things. The terrorism IS real. It's just not being reported through the Pentagon to the media so that people don't panic and send the country fully into a recession. It's kind of hard to fight a war when you don't know the enemy. That is the situation this country is in. They are still trying to figure out who all the others are.

Yopo< guitarist I'm really very curious about that ...

LadyV< Kotoki the old ones do not speak much of the war ... they cry ... and now I know why too. You are right ...

Skycatcher< A few years ago, in Texas, a woman was executed. Her crime was horrifying. In her years in jail she had changed completely, to become a Christian, truly working for the betterment of others. Altho many pushed for clemency, the authorities in Texas did decide to execute her, regardless of her complete rehabilitation. Many folks took both sides of the very public arguement. At that time I marveled at this Spiritual Test of us and our beliefs. Now I'm beginning to think that John Walker is another such test. I wonder if it is as important what happens to him, as our own thoughts, emotions, words and decisions are to us in our own Journey of Enlightenment. What does his situation teach each of us about ourselves?

selki< good night, and thank you all for the great discussion.

Skycatcher< To me, the terrorism in Afghanistan means nothing. It's a headline, a TV report, a few words of conversation at work ... But all of that activity invites a degree of terrorism into my very soul as I take sides, make choices, expound on points of government/law ... and I wonder about those lessons as well.

Kotoki< Yopo, would a US presidential assassination attempt (supported by foreign factions) be considered by you as something to protect against? (and not just the president). There are many many things that are NOT being reported ... because also they do not want to give the foreign factions the information of the ones sent here to do the deeds. Look at *any* military base in this country, they are on HIGH alert. There are reasons for it, and not just to further some hidden agenda. It's to do what the elected officials are sworn to do, protect our country.

Kotoki< Skycatcher are you American?

Yopo< Well, you've gotta wonder, though. Sadam was and is a threat to the peace of the world. We were in a position to finish with HIM, but for some incomprehensible reason, didn't. Airport security was woefully lax. We had abundant reason to correct that, but didn't. The whole business has left me a bit confused, and a bit suspicious.

Yopo< A good night to you selki! Blessings ...

Skycatcher< Yes, born in Massachusetts, live in Los Angeles.

Kotoki< Skycatcher, if the terrorism in Afghanistan means nothing to you as you say, then I guess those 6,000 people who were murdered on Sept 11 means nothing to you as well.

LadyV< night selki ...

Skycatcher< Yopo - Sadly, the US is, above all, a business entity. Airport security remained lax because the airlines, all of whom had donated generously to various political campaigns, were afraid of the impact on business tighter security would cause.

Skycatcher< A few more than 3000 people were murdered, and no, it means relatively little to me. I did not know any of them, or anyone who knew any of them. My life has not changed as a result of any of these things that have happened, and for me to wring my hands and whine about it would be greatly lacking in honesty. I was, of course, horrified at everything that happened, but I have not been personally affected.

Kotoki< I'm leaving ... it has been an interesting discussion to say the least. Yopo, Saddam wasn't a real threat, we gave him the weapons he used against us (why do you think his soldiers surrendered by the thousands?) Saudi Arabia is in danger of imminent internal collapse. We didn't remove Hussein because it is against the constitution of this country to remove the chosen leader of another country (that's why the Iraqi's had an election, and chose to re-elect Hussein, we had to respect their decision for themselves). We didn't correct the airport security because it was adequate (for that purpose). The new security measures aren't doing *anything* to improve that BTW, as nothing is focusing in the tarmac of the airport.

Yopo< Skycatcher With that, I agree. Somebody once said, "The business of America is business." To some extent, we are victims of our own narrow national preoccupation, and success.

Ishtahota< Kotoki What about the 5000 civilians we murdered when we went after Noriago.

LadyV< ... our brothers and sisters and all varied relations of in-laws and out-laws are in the Government ... doing the job in the military ... so its our kin out there ... lets hope they do it the best they can. If they don't we might all be hiding in holes like the moles ... lets trust our own ... and if we can't do that ... lets pray for them at least ... all I want is someone with hair on his face making decisions ... that is not asking for too, much I don't think. [laughing]

Yopo< Though I certainly can't say those that died here, or in Afghanistan, don't matter to me.

Kotoki< Skycatcher if you haven't been affected then you're in the very small minority. I'm leaving now ... and it shouldn't be up to the airlines to provide airport security, but the FAA and Dept of Trans is going to take over that I think. Leaving ... do zvidanya i mir ... POOF

LadyV< Night Kotoki rest well.

Yopo< Kotoki Yes, intense. And I don't think we've each entirely understood what the other was trying to say. *S* I bid you a good night! Blessings go with ...

Kotoki< Ishtahota isn't Noriega the one sitting in a Miami jail?

Ishtahota< Kotoki My point is that we have become the terrorist.

Skycatcher< Truly, I have not been affected, and to pretend to be would be indulging in hypocracy.

Skycatcher< I am, at most, a spectator, if you will - a voyeur in all of these events.

Yopo< Skycatcher Honesty is often the first thing to be misunderstood ... *s*

guitarist< "When it appeared that John/Abdul merely wanted to study the Koran and maybe help the poor, he was a "really good boy" who was just into "social justice." When John/Abdul's chosen path led him to bin Laden's terrorist training camp, when he chose to become a jihadi holy warrior, when he eventually supported the Sept. 11 terrorist bombings of the World Trade Center, this "shy, sweet" boy was now a victim of the Taliban rather than its faithful soldier." -- from Thomas L. Jipping of WorldNetDaily. He was commenting on the appearance of Walker's parents on "Larry King Live." That's where I got the idea that Walker supported the 9/11 attacks. I hope, for his sake, that this reporting was wrong.

LadyV< I am going to the kitchen for a snack ... be back in a few ...

Ishtahota< Kotoki Yes he is. But it is not a jail you or I would be sent to. It is called club fed.

Skycatcher< Ya know, Yopo, I think I'm past caring whether I'm understood or not. I just don't want to get dragged into cultural hysteria and lose my own clarity of self.

Yopo< guitarist I tend to read that as the thoughts of someone spinning out personal opinions. Ah, well ... Perhaps someday we'll hear the Walker boy's own explanation.

Yopo< Skycatcher Good luck! *S*

LEGS< Back ... hello again everyone

guitarist< (This article was from Dec. 6 and is titled, "What were they thinking?")

Skycatcher< Folks, when did a man, 20 yrs old, who managed to get to another country and enlist in their war, carried an AK-47 against other human beings, some of them truly only children, who's lived a life in caves, spent time in prison ... when did this person become a boy?

Yopo< Hi LEGS. Good dinner?

LEGS< All I know is that juveniles in Texas, depending upon the results of their crimes are made to stand trial as adults ... some as young as thirteen

Skycatcher< In his own country he's old enough to marry, old enough to father children, old enough to enlist, old enough to vote, old enough to smoke, and his religion forbids him to drink. Why is he suddenly a boy again?

guitarist< Yes, Yopo, I agree with you there. WND tends to opine a lot. I think the point was that, for certain purposes, Walker was taken as a responsible person, and for others, not.

Skycatcher< Good point LEGS. Folks, I think you need to watch out for media manipulation with this one. A man, doing as he seems to have done, would suffer much more serious penalties than a "boy". If he can be made to seem a mere child, then they will have won your sympathies. If you support and defend him - fine. But do so honestly, not as a result of someone else tugging on your heartstrings for this "child".

LEGS< Excellent dinner from an excellent cook Yopo ... Italian sausage in beer, garlic and jalapeno sauce with greenbeans in kemmelseed/butter sauce, baked tortillo chips with specially blended cream dip, Cabernet Sauvignon wine and specialty bread

guitarist< Hey, waiddamminnit, Skycatcher. It depends on the state, whether Walker is old enough. He's still 20, not 21. (Yes, I know that in some states, 18 is old enough. Not all.)

Yopo< Skycatcher "Boy" is maybe the wrong word. But he's very young. I suspect he entered onto this odd path as a boy. The problem with that sort of path is that it tends to lead one deeper into illusions, by isolating one from the things that might draw you back. Sort of what happens to a young person who falls into an insulated cult setting. You can't see the forest for the trees, and have to be out of the situation before you can make sense of it.

guitarist< The point some are making is that Walker's age is a sort of grey area. Anyone trying him would have to assess his actual maturity, as opposed to chronological age.

Yopo< LEGS I will not wax so eloquently about my own miserable plate of pasta with sauce out of a can ... *LOL*

guitarist< And, in fact, he was a boy when he started out, as Yopo suggests. He was 16.

Skycatcher< Fine, but that happens to people of all ages.

LEGS< WeTexan hot bloods are adult at 17 and a female when she marries, be it 12 on up ... I suggest that abdicating allegiance to your country to side with another against your country is as serious a decision as marriage, and should be considered an adult decision, if not very wise ... Had the Taliban been victorious at this point, ... a different story no doubt

LadyV< lets quit this and take a plane to LEGS house for left overs ... [boy! that sounds good!

guitarist< (((LEGS))) what an imagination he has! Sounds like a wonderful meal (except that, for myself, I would replace the sausage. I don't eat that). // Yopo, I make my own spaghetti sauce and put whatever I have around. Tonight, I had mushrooms, onions, tofu and some of the usual herbs and spices.

LEGS< Again, the question ... where were the parents at that date in time ... when he chose to be in Afghanistan????

Skycatcher< Many people change religions in their teens. They don't all join terrorist groups. Some do, but most manage to get by with out that particular experience on their resumes.

Yopo< He took a wrong turn. At that age, he shoulda taken up with Phish instead of the Taliban ... *S*

guitarist< LEGS, what was that URL for James von Praagh? (Am I spelling it correctly?)

LEGS< guitarist was wondering if you were familiar with the homey name of kemmel seeds???? I know them by another name

Skycatcher< I'm not saying his decisions were not shaped by fundamental Muslim experiences and training - they were. And I know it's a form of brainwashing. But brainwashed or not, he is not a boy. Perhaps, if he could go through some sort of cult deprogramming, he'd "come back". Perhaps not. But either way, he is not a boy.

guitarist< LEGS, I don't know kemmel seeds at all (but when it comes to vegetation, I am very adventurous). What other name do you know them by?

Skycatcher< LOL - Yopo - he was probably a vegetarian, so Phish was out of the question!

LEGS< http://www.vanpraagh.com then click on live chat on side bar ... then in the central line that says click here for chat ... it is java applet driven and scrolls automatically ... no requesting of readings nor giving of readings ... but is very nice to chat there ... cuss words are asterisked out ... there I am PSAMEA ... and FRAML has also been there some.

Yopo< Skycatcher OK, OK ... So long as you will concede that at 51, I am not an old codger ... *G*

LEGS< That is the old fashioned ... German cook name ... for carraway seeds, guitarist ... but a rose by any other name ... *S* ... wonderful enhancement

Skycatcher< Old???? Not a chance. A little geezer-ish maybe, but certainly not OLD!

LEGS< Now boys, says great grandmother LEGS

CelticFire< Somehow, someway, what happened on 9/11 affects all of us ... some of us may not want to admit to that -- Namaste' and gentle meet, everyone!!! I have 2 screens going here ...

Yopo< Thanks, LEGS. I bookmarked that for a look later on ...

guitarist< Sounds lovely, LEGS -- I may just see you there sometime.

LEGS< {*{*{*{*{*Celtic*}*}*}*}*}

Yopo< Hello, CelticFire

guitarist< (((CelticFire)))

Skycatcher< Tell you a secret - I'll be 54 next month, and LEGS, I'm NOT one of the boys!

CelticFire< LEGS -- thanks for that site, sweets - {{{HUGS}}}

LEGS< You can chat without register ing your name, but on prayer circle nites it gets pretty busy ... some of the chat logs are posted on the page, might want to read them ... interesting ... there were 189 chatters in the one room on Halloween nite ... and only 121 on last Tuesday nite

Yopo< geezer, shmeezer, Uncle Ebenezer ... (Shouldn't have mentioned Phish ... *hehe*)

guitarist< OOOOOOooooooh, LEGS! For the rest, carraway seeds are what are put on genuine Jewish rye bread!

LEGS< It is available for chat 24/7 but you cannot just lurk ... have to join in to the chat or ten mins without a comment gets you ejected, though you can re enter.

Yopo< LEGS, I've heard of this VanPraagh somewhere, but can't place him ... Maybe someone at Insights mentioned him ...

LEGS< Pshaw, skycatcher, you are young to me ... male or female ... *G*

CelticFire< LEGS -- hmmm, well, I had a spell with my heart today -- had to cancel some plans with my friends ... *sigh* actually, tho, I'm doing good -- and Wolf has a better job starting soon -- as soon as the paperwork gets through their corporate headquarters ... *S*

Skycatcher< " ... some of us may not want to admit to that" So nice to have someone who doesn't even know me second guessing my experience of life. I guess I should just bow to this greater wisdom??? Wait-a-minute, that's what I've been fighting all my life - others who think they know me and what my own truth is or should be. Not a chance!

LEGS< He used to help host the TV shows called "The Other Side" and has 4 books out ... the first was Talking to Heaven ... he is a former Catholic, and a medium ... a friend of John Edward, another Catholic medium, though the Church doesn't want people to speak to spirits, but to rely on the Church or Jesus.

Yopo< We'll, I'll be the first to admit that there are some things I'm not yet ready to admit to ... *S*

CelticFire< Yopo -- VanPraagh is a medium -- and a real one at that ... *S* -- more so than I -- what little talent I have is restricted to dreaming -- he is a full fledged medium ... *S*

LEGS< (((((CelticFire))))))) ... certainly don't want to influence you in any direction Skycatcher ... just that to me, 54 is very young ... but wouldn't want to go back that far again.

Yopo< OH HO! Now I recall him, from the telly ... Maybe from a bookcover, too ...

LEGS< LadyV ... I had a very strange, interesting but rather disturbing dream last nite, in which my former boss and myself were the only ones present who have not already passed over ...

Skycatcher< Whoops, Legs, your talking about John Edward with the TV show and the books "One More Time" and "Crossing Over". van Praag is going to have one soon and has written several books.

LadyV< LEGS disturbed you??

Yopo< (Hmm ... Sure is a lot of this "interesting but distrubing dream" stuff going around lately ... )

Skycatcher< John Edward is the one that has a New Yawk accent and looks a little like Stallone. van Praagh reminds me of the Pillsbury Doughboy. Both are very, very good.

guitarist< LEGS, I think Ben has a point when he says that mediumship is part of the same continuum as prayer, but lower on the scale. However, it sounds as though the people who frequent Mr. van Praagh's chatroom(s?) operate on a higher level than some people who frequent SWC ... present company definitely not included here.

LEGS< In the dream, of course I didn't know ... wasn't aware at the time ... that all had passed over except the two of us, but I entered the large room where all were visiting as if for the Holidays ... and spoke to several loved ones, then noticed this sorta low partition sectioning off a corner of the room and could see that my boss was seated there ... I couldn't see with whom he was talking and walked around the end of the partition speaking to him ... at that moment, my late husband who was seated there visiting with him, stood and without making eye contact with me, left the small area to rejoin the others in the large part of the room, and I sat down in his place to visit with my boss ... a good friend to both of us.

Skycatcher< John Edward was going to do a show with survivors of the WTC disaster, but had to cancel it when people thought it was in bad taste. But I would have loved seeing THAT show!

CelticFire< 54 is young -- just like 37 is extremely young ... *S*

Skycatcher< I believe in what he does, so wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to have "One Last Time" with a loved one who had been taken away by the disaster? He's probably doing the readings, just not for TV now. He sounded like that kind of person in his books.

Yopo< guitarist Not to change the subject ... But have you ever played one of those shiny steel resonater guitars? I sorta fell in love with the tone of one in a music store today. "Regal" brand, made in Korea, of all places. It had remarkably easy action, and that distinctive bluesy metalic tone.

LEGS< When I realized that my husband was not rejoining us, I stood to look for him, and everyone but me sorted blended away ... even my former boss, and I awoke. It was when thinking about it and wondering why my husband avoided visiting with me, that I realized all the others were already on the other side, but the boss and me. And from some incidents since my husband passed, I now believe that his "task" is to escort others ... or to reassure them before ... in their passing over. Now ...

guitarist< Yopo: Do you mean, a pedal steel guitar? One you sit at, and it sits above your lap like a piano, and you play it with a glass slide? Or do you mean a more conventional instrument? I've never heard of a "steel resonator guitar."

Yopo< guitarist No ... Like a Dobro ...

LEGS< My former boss went out of state before Thanksgiving to visit family and I had expected him to be back here before now, but have thought perhaps they persuaded him to stay thru the new year holiday as well, but now I am worried that he is either ill or has had an accident ... the reason my late husband wouldn't make eye contact with me, is, I believe, because it isn't time for me to cross over yet.

Yopo< "Dobro" I think is a specific brand of this sort of instrument ...

guitarist< (Maybe that exposes my ignorance about guitars. There may be more kinds than those I'm aware of.)

Yopo< LEGS I think I'd feel compelled to try to call the guy, if possible. Not to tell him about the dream or anything ... But I might take that as a message that I should talk to him.

LEGS< Guess I scared everyone away in this room too. *LOL* ... anyway it is hard to interpret your own dreams and wonder what others think of this

LEGS< Thank you Yopo, I believe I will tomorrow.

LadyV< I would call the guy myself ... just a message to reassure you.

guitarist< Yopo -- I think it's not a guitar, but a kind of harp. I forget the name of the instrument, but I believe they are played extensively in Appalachia. If it's what I think it is, yes, I have played them.

LadyV< LEGS How long has it been since you dreamt of your husband that is deceased?

Yopo< guitarist The instrument has a conventional wooden neck, somewhat wider than most steel-string guitars. More like you'd find on a classical guitar. The entire soundbox is chromed steel, though. It has f-holes, like a violin. The bridge rests against a large circular metal resonator within the soundbox, and conducts the vibrations there. Quite a loud, slightly metallic tone, but not at all harsh. Mellow.

guitarist< LEGS, I agree with Yopo and LadyV.

CelticFire< Legs -- hmm, worry is interest paid on trouble before trouble comes due

LEGS< Remember, Yopo, he is the one who had the precognitive dream about seeing AG in the fog calling my name ... then seeing the two wire fence and cows of all different breeds behind him as the mist cleared ... Then of course that very scene happened ... at the funeral of the wife of AG's brother ... at the little country cemetery, next to a pasture of a mixed herd of cattle ... on a very foggy day. When I went back to the car to get our coats, he missed me and began calling my name out ... when I looked toward him, the fog cleared behind him briefly, and there was the two wire fence and the cows.

Yopo< guitarist Anyhow ... *LOL* I am resisting the urge to try to talk the shop owner into a trade.

guitarist< Yopo: I owned an f-hole guitar once, similar to what you describe. It isn't what I though of when you said, Dobro. (It's been a long time.) Yes, I've played with one.

LadyV< Celtic thats the Irish way to put it ... [grinning] How are you? I have been in and out of here most of the evening ... missed seeing your messages.

LEGS< Perhaps both he and I were just astral traveling to see our friends already gone.

LadyV< LEGS I am more inclined to think that ... still the bonding is there ... best to call him.

CelticFire< {{{LadyV}}} -- how warm did it get there today??

guitarist< (I may be confusing that harplike instrument with a Dobro in my mind because all that happened when I was in high school -- long ago.)

LadyV< CelticFire it was not warm this day ... it was in the 50's ... with rainy weather ... yesterday near 80 degrees ...

guitarist< I'm thinking of going to visit vanPraagh's site to check it out before I get too tired.

LEGS< That is what is strange, LadyV ... I have tried and tried to dream of him, and never have that I could recall ... the first husband pops into my dreams when I am very tired, or in pain for some reason ... which is the sad trigger to bring him into the dr eam, as he was an abuser.

Yopo< LEGS Dreams are difficult, I think. The ones that are more seem to have a different texture, a different quality. There was the warning dream where I spoke with my grandfather a few years ago, that I am convinced was some sort of intervention at a critical moment. It had all the odd detail of a regular dream, but an odd sense that I was really talking to another presence, and a persistance out of sleep that has stayed with me.

LEGS< guitarist, I will meet you there if you wish ...

LadyV< Worried about Framl ... he is like a clock ... does not change his movements ... and when he is not around when he should be ... I wonder.

CelticFire< LadyV -- been busy as well -- I've got 3 screens going -- looks like I've got a male dragon hitting on me ... *giffle*

LEGS< Yopo, that is the way this has stuck with me today ... a persistence ... If I don't get him tomorrow I wll check with the lady who should know ... and if necessary call his brother he was to visit.

Yopo< guitarist Basically, a Dobro pretty much looks like a guitar somebody made out of shiny steel. Durn things weigh a ton, though. Might be handy. I could stick little notes to myself on it with refrigerator magnets ... *LOL*

guitarist< YOPO -- OK, I know what you're talking about now. I have NOT played one; my f-hole guitar was wood, and was more of a jazz guitar, not very loud at all. I have seen Dobros, though, and I agree with you, they sound mellow.

LEGS< the leoprechaun was playing tunes for me today on the music keyboard ... he doesn't have an accordian which is his favorite to play ... he plays by ear, but is pretty good ... I enjoy hearing him

LadyV< LEGS because your brain remembers him as Pain ... the first husband that is ... and too, he needs to come to you and comfort you after being such a jerk ... that is just punishment for him ... to see your pain from the other side and not be there to make it better. This is the first dreaming of the second husband ... think I have it right. I think you went to astral with this boss you are bonded to in a psychic way ... and the second husband did not welcome you ... I don't think he recognized you. I am wondering if he is still trying to work out his own passing. Its a long shot ... but had he known you he would have moved to you. Thus it would two-fold ... one for the astral ... the boss needs you ... second for the second husband to show you that he is having trouble adjusting ... I would pray for the second husband. That is my feeling ... I don't have any idea if thats rational or not ... just going with my feelings here.

CelticFire< So, anyone know of a budding female dragonet who would be willing to meet a nice gentleman dragon??

LadyV< celtic three screens ... good Lord I can not manage all that ... I would be cross eyed.

LadyV< Oh ... its the male Celtic ... thought I was talking with the lass ...

LadyV< LEGS you are very melancholy ... it seems that way to me ... is it Christmas?

guitarist< LadyV: do we know for sure that the first husband isn't just drawn by LEGS' pain because he hasn't changed? // LEGS, what do you feel when you see him?

SoulAwakenin< Hi could someone click on my nic to see if the mp3 sample is okay please?

CelticFire< *snort* -- hooboy, this one is hitting on me BIG TIME!!! *lol* thing is, I did NOTHING to encourage this, just answered his pm -- *S*

LadyV< guitarist ... regardless a rat ... smells like a rat ... on either side ... to me that is ...

CelticFire< LadyV -- you are talking to the lass ...

Yopo< (GRRRRR ... I am SO TIRED of all the SPAM filling up my mailbox lately! Getting as bad as the telemarketers used to be ... )

LadyV< SoulAwakenin its downloading at 3 minutes something ... it should work ...

LEGS< Mostly the birthday of my sister on the 4th, LadyV

LadyV< oh, ok ... Celtic I don't know the hubby ... so well.

SoulAwakenin< ty ladyV *S*

LadyV< LEGS I am sorry.

Yopo< LEGS Ah ... Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Yopo< LEGS? You still here?

CelticFire< Hmm, I think this is someone we all know -- just in under a diff nic -- we'll see

SoulAwakenin< So does it work well ladyV?

CelticFire< LadyV -- well when you click on his nic, you come across Raven's page -- with several links on it -- he sounds quite a bit like SilverFox -- does anyone know if SF has a brother??

LadyV< SoulAwakenin hold it ... will click on it and start it going ... brb

LadyV< play it that is ...

SoulAwakenin< ty ladyV *VBS*

CelticFire< He claims to be none of them on the site ... but he's doing the "I'm your revealer" act, just like SilverFox did ...

CelticFire< Hmm, he is very trusting -- just gave me his e-mail -- and I didn't ask for it

CelticFire< notice, I did NOT give him mine -- and it's diff from my nic in here

LadyV< SoulAwakenin yes ... it works fine ... thank you!! Its lovely

Yopo< CelticFire Right. You mail to his e address, then he's got YOURS. *s*

LadyV< anyone for Strawberries and creme ... my midnight snack ...

CelticFire< Yopo -- you got it -- I ain't no fool!!!

LadyV< Hi tjones ... ///zemi

SoulAwakenin< ty LadyV for listening the file. It was the last one I needed to choose before doing my final act for the cd. Thank you again *VBS*

CelticFire< Just told him so, too -- gently -- and made my wording so that he would understand that I am very happily married and very firmly attached to 'Wolf -- in fact, I implied that I thought he was a little too free with his information ... *S*

LadyV< glad you shared it with me SoulAwakenin ...

Yopo< CelticFire Yopo ain't no fool either, yet his e mail box is lately stuffed with all manner of poorly wrapped garbage I wouldn't touch with a stick. Come to think, maybe I AM a fool. I had my e address on my website with a direct link 'til a few days ago, not realizing that "harvester" programs prowl the net sucking up any e addy they can find. They sell 'em to the purvayors of garbage. I just figured out I SHOULD have shown my address as a .gif file, to make it invisible to robots ...

LadyV< CelticFire who is SilverFox? I don't recall that nick.

LEGS< I remember SilverFox

Yopo< Ah, LEGS, you're back! *S* I was about to make an exit, before I fall asleep at the keyboard ...

LadyV< Actually what he is truly saying ... is LEGS your company keeps me awake ... [grinning and teasing Yopo]

CelticFire< Remember Allyandria and SilverFox?

Yopo< Hey, no fair teasing a guy to sleepy to defend himself ...

Yopo< (Or to spell right, for that matter ... )

LEGS< *G* guitarist and I jumped over to vanpraaghs chat room

LadyV< ok ... [laughing]

guitarist< I've visited van Praagh's chatroom. Very interesting. Still there.

CelticFire< Yopo -- I hear that -- I've been getting so darned much junk mail in my yahoo account, I'm thinking about opening up a new one -- everytime I block one, they get a new addey and circumvent the block!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

LEGS< hello guitarist

LEGS< thanx for coming over ... they are in a light hearted mood tonite

guitarist< I got bumped, though. I need to go back to say goodnight to them. I may go back there Tuesday. What time?

Yopo< CelticFire I think 90% of the trouble comes from having an e address showing on the web in HTML code. If you've done that, change the address to appear as an image file. Looks the same to humans, but is invisible to the durn spider-robots ...

LadyV< is Tuesday the night Praagh is on ...

Yopo< Gotta sleep, folks ... Much enjoyed your company tonight! Bright dreams to you ... *S*

guitarist< yes, LadyV.

LadyV< Yopo one day when you find time ... not necessary tonight ... help me figure out how to delete cookies off my hard drive ... I could not believe how many I had ... just visiting web sites.

guitarist< 'Night, Yopo. Likewise. :)

LEGS< {{{{{{Yopo}}}}}} nitey nite

LadyV< that should be interesting ... I always wondered what happened to my Great Auntie that married the rich guy and noone ever knew where he buried the money ... [grinning] now I can find out ... maybe ...

Yopo< *S* Blessings! *gone*

LadyV< night Yopo

CelticFire< Yopoi -- thanks, i'll do that -- *S* -- I just need to figure out how ...

LadyV< What time is he on?

guitarist< 9:00 eastern time, LadyV.

guitarist< Warning: chatting there is very different than in here. You have to be able to type fast.

guitarist< That is, if you want to get a word in edgewise. LOL

guitarist< I think I'll say goodnight now. I notice nobody's above ground. *goodnight*poof*sweetdreams*warmest regards to all*

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