15 Feb 2003
Ben's Seminar
Angels (part 1)

Ben : ALL: Tonight is the first of three sessions on the subject of angels. After a brief introduction, I will post the first question and invite your response. Some time later I will post another question and invite your response -- and so on, to the end of the hour. Then I will post a brief summary and ask for continued discussion of angels.

Ben : Angel means messenger, but we don't limit our use of the word to that meaning. In the most basic sense, it refers to a type or class of discarnate beings.

Ben : Primitive tribes all over the world have legends that tell of bright, powerful beings who appear in dreams and visions and protect people and tribes. Many religions have teachings about angels or similar beings. In Hinduism and Buddhism, many gods are accompanied by a court of spiritual beings. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have the most elaborate doctrines about angels. According to these religions, angels live in heaven and serve as God's messengers to human beings.

Ben : QUESTION 1: What do you think? Do you believe in angels? Whether you answer "Yes" or "I'm not sure" or "No" please describe what the word "angels" means to you. YOUR TURN

StarrFu : Yes. Angel, to me, means a spirit messenger. I like to feel that they show me angles of light I do not perceive. Sometimes they are stronger in presence than others.

FRAML : #1. Yes, I believe in angels.

Skycatcher : I am not of the Judeo-Christian religions. I'm not sure about "angels" per se, but I firmly believe in messengers, and an intercessory Creator.

Skycatcher : Well, maybe not that the Creator is intercessory, but that the Universe is set up so that there are those who do intercede, whether they are called "angels" or other names.

FRAML : The word "angel" means to me as you have defined it first: A messenger of God. They deliver messages from God to us, and from us to God. They also do whatever work God needs done in the spiritual and sometimes physical realm.

Ben : Thoughtful responses. Thank you. Are there others?

alremkin : #1. I believe in angels. Angels are part of the Divine hierarchy, intermediaries between God and humans as well as serving as Divine place holders, tweaking physical and etheric reality to more fully manifest the love of God. I find I can tune in to the angelic hierarchy more easily when I'm holding a high vibration and I believe this is the way to cultivate the divinity within us.

Ben : Yes. I believe angels are discarnate beings, some of whom serve as messengers of God, and I usually use the word in that sense. I also believe there are fallen angels and other discarnate beings who do not serve as messengers of God.

Skycatcher : I have never met "evil" in any spiritual venture, so I'm not so sure about fallen angels or things like that.

Ben : ALL: What you have said is clear, and appreciated.

Skycatcher : I also use the term angel to describe those whose lives seem to have been graced to teach us in extraordinary ways -- such as a friend's daughter, born Christmas Eve, without a brain, living at home for 4 months before returning to God. She had to be an angel.

Ben : Skycatcher : Yes, I also appreciate that use of the word angel.

Ben : QUESTION 2: What is the basis for your answer to Question 1? In other words, please briefly describe why you answered that way. YOUR TURN

Skycatcher : I base my ideas on readings and meditative experiences, and what I see in the worlds around me.

StarrFu : My personal experience. I know that they are here in my healing work, they sometimes make themselves known and once one saved my life. Sometimes I catch the tired, frayed ones in the corners of my eyes around the terminal clients. Light with form and essence.

FRAML : I've been aware of work that they do in the spiritual realm. And I have heard stories from people, whom I deem credible, who have said that they have seen angels helping them or others. An example follows ...

Skycatcher : I too have felt/seen presences in various spiritual works I've done, especially healing works.

Amala : Hello *S* I've been thinking that 'angels' are future versions of us ... or a part of us that exists in a different dimension ... a part of us that watches over our human selves ... I've come to believe this from things I've read ... and sense.

alremkin : #2. I've had some interaction of which I retain conscious memory with higher order beings. Regarding Divine place holders, I have only an intuitive understanding that they exist although I also find it logical. When we raise our vibration we close the distance between us, etherically making Divine communication easier. My understanding is that for the most part the reason we don't actually see the Divine hierarchy is that we are fixated on lower energy, much like our eyes only see a minute part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Free will exists for angels too since there are some who choose to severe darkness. My understanding is that the majority serve God.

Skycatcher : I too tend to take a more physics-oriented explanation of what these beings are, higher vibrations of what is expressed in our current consciousness, a "world" of their own, bound by the same laws, but at a different vibrational level.

Ben : My belief in angels is based on reports I have read in scripture and elsewhere, first-person testimony from people I have no reason to doubt, and personal experience.

FRAML : During an interview with survivors from the attack on the Pentagon last year, an officer told me that he had help from angels when he was trying to rescue people trapped inside the building. He told me of a man in blue coveralls who appeared and gave him a key to unlock a door that he was trying to get through, and then the man disappeared. He didn't walk away, but vanished. A short time later the officer came upon a person who was severely injured and he needed help to carry the person out of the building. He said that 2 men, in white, appeared out of the smoke and helped him carry the injured person to a point where there was no smoke, and they disappeared. He said that the direction they appeared from, through the smoke, was a damaged area that, as far as he knew, no one was in.

Ben : FRAML : Very nice example. Thank you. You anticipated my next question, but that's OK. *S*

Celia : Yes. Thank you FRAML.

FRAML : The man who told me this story is a career military officer, thus a person whom some would stereotype as not being interested in "spiritual" things. He said, for the record, that he was praying for help all during the hours he spent in the Pentagon trying to rescue trapped and injured personnel.

Celia : I saw an angel at my mother's bedside when she was dying, and also heard the words "ministering angel." I had been praying almost continuously at the time.

kanga : I just came in to offer condolences and prayers for LEGS and her family for the loss of her son and daughter-in-law. I will place her and her family in my meditation circles and send her Reiki. Thank you.

Ben : kanga : You are welcome to stay and participate in this discussion if you wish.

kanga : I would love to, Ben. I love angel power. I work and channel angels.

eddie : Greetings. I scrolled back to get into the discussion.

Ben : ALL: Any more replies to Question 2 ? I'll wait for another minute or so before posting the third question.

eddie : I have personally seen and been with an Angel. At a time I was in what was then the worst frame of mind I had ever been in.

Ben : QUESTION 3: Do you have an angel story you would like to share? If so, please say whether it is from something you read, or first-person testimony (something you were told by the one who experienced it), or personal experience. YOUR TURN

eddie : I have a story I will share. It will take a few moments.

Ben : eddie: OK. Take your time. That's why I have left enough time for people to type their angel stories.

kanga : I first met a angel when I was very sick with cancer. I was laying on my bed and felt this feeling I still can't describe. I opened my eyes and there right before me was this most amazing blue light that was from my bed to the ceiling in my room. At that stage I wasn't really walking on my spiritual path, and I was so scared I must have jumped 3 feet in the air.  The light went, and it was then I knew it was a divine experience. Thank you. That was archangel Michael, and now I don't jump, now I don't get scared. Now I invoke him.

Amala : After 9/11 ... trying to make sense of it ... feeling crazy and crazier ... I asked St. Michael (Archangel) for help in finding some stability. An hour later an email from a list I'm on came that turned me toward information that not only stabilized me but gave me a great sense of insight about 9/11, calmed me, relieved me greatly. The craziness went away. When I dug out the email a few days later to reply to the sender, to thank them, I noticed the email was sent from "Michele d'Angelo" ...

kanga : Amala: Wow! How wonderful!

Amala : (I was raised Catholic, catholic school, heard all the stories about angels appearing out of nowhere and terrifying shepherds, etc., before giving them a message. *S* As a kid I pleaded with angels and whomever to please NEVER just appear to me out of nowhere and terrify me ... so they send me emails instead, or appear as 'ordinary' people who tell me extraordinary things when I'm in a time of need and have asked for help ... but they never scare me ... *S*)

alremkin : This happened to me last July, my most recent experience with Divine hierarchy. It was a hot summer night, and when it is like this, so hot, I take the futon off my sofa put it on my balcony where it's noticeably cooler, making it a lot more comfortable to sleep. I had a dream I was on Mt. Shasta, and I was experiencing strong interaction with both angelic and higher order ET's in the dream. There were a few other people there as well, but I don't remember who they are. I could feel energy flowing through me, and then my cat jumped on me, waking me, the only time she's done that in the 2 years I've had her. Upon waking I realized that it wasn't just a dream, but that it's the first time I've retained conscious memory of Divine communion during sleep. I still feel a strong attraction to go to Mt. Shasta this summer and camp in the upper meadow for a few days.

StarrFu : Personal Experience ... I lived in Mexico in the jungle and was studying with a curandera for 3 years. In the 2nd year I was the one to get up in the night and deliver the baby healer. One night I went to a corrugated aluminum hovel with cracks so big you could throw a cat through them. The girl was about 13-14, short, and scream filled. It was a breech. Twins. We were about 60 km from a clinic. In the 3rd hour I realized the babies legs were intertwined with the umbilical cords. She was fully dilated and I felt all the feet. I started to pray for Divine Intervention. My eyes were blurring with sweat and tears. Two hands of light came through my chest and joined mine. The room filled with the smell of roses ... everything went startling white, and I could not see, and there was baby # 1 in my hands. Baby # 2 took a little time and came out perfect ... I could still smell roses on my shirt the next day.

kanga : StarrFu: What a honor! Hugs to you.

eddie : Thanksgiving day 1988. The family gathering at maternal grandma's. The person I was closest to in my life, my uncle Kent, one and a half years my elder, didn't show up. His wife and daughter did. Kent and I had "that" connection. (Shortening the story here) Everyone was concerned. Kent wasn't in good health. Degenerative bones from steroids to alleviate asthma. So, my brother-in-law went to Kent's house to see what was up. Kent lived 30 miles from his mom, my grandma. Ned, my brother-in-law, got to Kent's and heard water running in the bathroom, but no one answered the door. Ned knew the home well and went in thru a rear sliding door. He found Kent deceased on the bathroom floor ... self-inflicted overdose hypodermically.

eddie : So, Ned called to grandma's to tell us what he found, after of course trying CPR and calling for help. I was devastated as were most of the family. We attempted to make it a day. That evening, my wife, myself and my son returned to our home 60 miles away. We were alone, no family near. I hurt, very much. I couldn't sleep, tossed and turned and suffering. I got out of bed to allow my wife to sleep. I laid on the couch in the den.  Was hurting badly. I laid there till around 2 am. Asking the whys and blaming me and everyone else. I had all lights off in the house. All of a sudden the room started to lighten up.

eddie : Then I sat up ... looking. What the heck?? Like there were a million points of light coming in. Tiny points like little balls of light. These points of light started to group together, and make a form ... in about 3 to 4 minutes they completed ... and there stood an Angel.

OwlGhost : *smiling*

eddie : The den (a large room about 24 by 48) was lit, a soft glow, calming, mellow ... I looked at the Angel. I felt in me an instant release and calm and warmth. As I looked at her ... yes, a female form ... she looked me eye to eye. No words were exchanged. And then she looked over her left shoulder and I followed her eyes. There was my uncle standing beside her. Then they both looked at me for a minute or two. Next they both started dissolving into those before-mentioned points of light ... slowly dissipating ... slowly disappearing till the balls of lights were not a form. The balls of light swirled all over and around me, went towards the ceiling, and left.

kanga : eddie: That's beautiful!

OwlGhost : Wonderful, eddie ... *S*

Ben : eddie : That is a fine angel story. Thank you very much.

eddie : That's it, a Readers Digest condensed version. Bottom line: my uncle without words told me he was safe, happy and going home. And to prove to my old hard head, he had the Angel with him. I will never forget what she looks like. I know beyond any knowing ... Angels are real.

eddie : Thank you ALL for allowing me to share what many would not. Namaste

Amala : Eddie ... you were sooooo lucky to have that experience!!!!!! What a great gift your uncle gave you, in more ways than one! *VBS*

eddie : Amala ... Luck? Aww, I do not believe in luck, but instead that we are answered by what we believe. Did I believe in Angels? I must have, because Kent came to my home with ONE. Lovely smile Kent had that night, exactly like the Angel's.

PreciousOne : Hello everyone. HUGS! May I share a Angel story with you ?

Ben : PreciousOne : Please do.

Amala : (((these stories are sooooo wonderful and wonder-filled ... *VBS*)))

Ben : One of my favorites is from personal experience. I was working with a team of angels to cleanse the spiritual body of my son. They found something imbedded and set it aside. Later, when I asked the angel team leader what it was, the angel said "An entity. Intelligent. Not evil." It turned out to be the disembodied soul of a cat. She was my son's cat named Stacey who died the previous year. Because she loved him and was doing no damage, she was permitted to stay with my son, but not within his spiritual body.

Skycatcher : I was trained to do that kind of entity removal work, and the teacher taught us to always call in our angels and work with them.

StarrFu : I strongly suggest that NO entity removal be done without the help of angels.

alremkin : Ben: Interesting about the cat. My last cat and I were very close. So I waited a year and a half to get another cat after he died. When I first got my old cat I'd had him about 6 months, then went on a two-week holiday, getting the neighbors to feed him. When I came back he hadn't eaten for the two weeks I'd been gone. After that he was Ok with eating when I went on holiday. I guess he believed I'd return.

kanga : Have to go. Bye! Thank you for having me in the room.

eddie : Aloha, kanga ... Peace, light & joy. Namaste

Ben : SUMMARY: There are differences of opinion about angels. Many people do not believe in angels. Many aren't sure angels are real. Many believe in angels on the basis of scripture or other writings. Many have had personal experience with angels or beings they believe to be angels. They may testify (speak or write) about their experience, but the experience itself is not transferable.

Ben : Setting Topic To: Continuing: angel stories and discussion of angels

greyman : Thank you, Ben.

Ben : greyman : You're welcome. *S*

Amala : Ben - this was beautiful, thank you :-)

Awenydd : Can angels be "born" or at least temporarily inhabit bodies? I ask, because I swear my youngest son is/was an angel. So unlike other children ... perhaps only an old soul that really understands, but he has done so much ...

Amala : Awenydd ... I think so ... :-)

eddie : Awenydd: Me too. My son and His Angel Being look. Especially when he sleeps. True.

OwlGhost : Awenydd: I don't think so ... more likely he's an enlightened old soul.

Skycatcher : Awenydd: I believe that certain angels will take up residence in human form to teach us life-changing lessons. For me, this is especially true with children who are only with us for a short period of time, as incredible teachers of unconditional loving.

kanga : Awenydd: During all my work that I have done, and teaching I have been given, I believe angels temporarily take human form. I believe they are divine messengers from God here for us always. I believe that some light workers who perhaps are on their last life shine like beacons and show that same energy.

PreciousOne : When I was 5 years old I came very close to drowning. I was swimming in the shallow end and accidentally slipped over to the deep end. There was no life guard around, and all I remember is gasping for air and going under. I went all the way to the bottom and tried to kick my way up but I was too weak from swallowing too much water. The next thing I know, I feel someone pulling me out of the water. It was a lady floating above me in a white gown and long brown hair. Everyone at the pool that day saw her, and she saved my life. It was even in the newspaper, about an Angel saving a child's life that day due to a life guard leaving his chair which he was suppose to be on duty that day.

Amala : PreciousOne ... beautiful ... *VBS*

Ben : PreciousOne : Thank you. It is especially interesting that everyone at the pool that day saw her.

PreciousOne : I believe God wants me here for a reason because I have had a lot of close to death experiences. So I guess I am here for some reason and God wants me here.

alremkin : Puts on the CD "The Eternal Om".

Ben : ALL: Does anyone else have an angel story they would like to share?

Celia : Thank you Ben. I'm looking forward to the next seminar.

Ben : Celia: You're welcome. Next time I'll try to expand the subject a bit with my questions. *S*

FRAML : I remember a now-deceased member of my church who was telling about being in the hospital after a heart attack and seeing a couple of angels in his hospital room. I don't recall if he said that they said anything, but he said, to the congregation, that he got a feeling of reassurance from them.

FRAML : Once again, this gentleman was a retired military man ... whom many don't think have any interest or need for spiritual dealings.

FRAML : And he said this when he was thanking the congregation for praying for him while he was in the hospital. Thus angels pick up messages from us to help others.

Ben : FRAML : Thank you. That was public testimony to his experience of angels.

eddie : IMO, that saying "when the student is ready the teacher will appear" applies for Angels.

PreciousOne : Would it be Ok If I asked for some prayers for my back? I've been hurting badly from it being injured while roller-blading. I am on muscle relaxers. Seems to help some but knocks the crap out of me and can't function real well after I take one. I've been seeing a chiropractor. He kind of helps, sort of, but sometimes makes it more sore. I am embarrassed asking, but if I don't, no one would know or be able to pray for me.

alremkin : Tuning in to Om land, so I think this is a good time for prayer.

alremkin : Just had a funny thought: The Omland defense force, lol.

bindy : Good thought ~*alremkin*~ or message. *S*

Amala : alremkin: I like that ... *S* Lets get bumper-stickers made up ... *S*

Ben : PreciousOne : Done. And for inspiration of your chiropractor. (I like the picture of a little-girl angel on your web page.)

PreciousOne : Thank you. HUGS! It's me when I was 3 years old I believe. It's on the first page, and then one called My Angel. I have a photo there too, of me at age 2 years old.

dancer : PreciousOne: Will add you in my prayers ... sorry to hear of your injury ... *hugs*

greyman : Three months after the NYC attacks, my wife & I went to what was left of the twin towers to pray. I saw 2 huge angels slowly going around the outline of where the south tower was. One looked back to where I was and smiled at me. The purpose from what I can gather was a rescue of souls.

Ben : greyman: Thank you. Many, many people were praying for the souls of the people killed in that attack. My understanding would be that some of those souls were stuck in the (no longer physically existent) areas where their offices were, and so those angels were searching for them there.

bindy : hello ~*everyone*~ have enjoyed scrolling back. *S* How lovely for this discussion to take place in here with ~*LEGS*~ messages above ... maybe more of a message here than we think ... *S* Bye now. *S*

Awenydd : Speaking of LEGS, she called me this afternoon. First time I have heard from her directly since she emailed about the accident.

dancer : Awenydd: How is she holding up? She has been on my mind so much lately ...

Awenydd : She is doing well, as well as can be expected, but still upset, understandably. She greatly appreciates all the kind words, prayers, condolences, etc ...

PreciousOne : I am keeping LEGS in my prayers. I am glad she is doing better. It will take a long time to heal. I will also light a candle again for her tonight and ask God to send his angels to guide her and her family.

Awenydd : And she appreciates the cards as well. She told me about the accident ... very terrible ... one of those things that just a few seconds could have made all the difference. There has been another family incident as well, so the family continues to grieve and reel ... I'm not saying this right ...

dancer : Awenydd: I will keep her in my prayers ... it's so sad ...

Awenydd : I'm still pretty affected by it all, from my closeness to LEGS and inability to express myself in times like this ... so I'll leave it with this: she deeply appreciates all the concern, and continues to grieve.

OwlGhost : Awenydd: *S* It's perfect.

alremkin : I'm flowing with the energy of the CD and the energy in this room, and I'm serious about this being a good time for prayer if someone wants to focus the intent now.

eddie : Being here now in this present. I accept the gift of knowing GOD in my fullest realization. I AM walking this path I call Life in Light and embracing Peace and Harmony to my center. I know Shelia is supported by the Source of all things. At all times and in all situations she is LOVED. Shelia allows Love to flow to her, into her and through her. She absorbs the energy and allows the renewing of every fiber of her Being. She is Love and is radiating it to everything everywhere. Shelia is supporting all thoughts which resonate within. She loves life and Life loves her. The Infinite One is the power that propels her into her healing. I am truly grateful to know this for Shelia, and I accept this for her and all other Beings. I give great thanks to this Healing Source. I release these words into the One, knowing it is so ... and so it is.

Ben : eddie : While reading your prayer for Shelia, I am praying for your intent. Amen.

eddie : Ben: Thanks. My Intent is pure and clear.

Ben : eddie: I realize your intent is pure and clear. That is why my prayer is an Amen to your intent.

alremkin : And so it is, Amen, Om ...

dancer : I am so sorry to have missed the majority of this seminar on angels ... for of all of the things I have come to question in regard to religion, the existence of angels and of the love of God is one of the few things life has taught me never to question.

alremkin : dancer: Then life has taught you well.

Ben : dancer : Hello. A transcript of this seminar will be in the CrossRoads archives in a few days.

greyman : Good night dear ones. God Bless.

dancer : greyman:  Good nite, God bless, gentle dreams ...

Ben : greyman: Good night. You may be able to sleep in tomorrow. There is snow in the forecast.

eddie : I have an add-on to my angel story. As soon as Kent and the Angel had disappeared, my wife got up out of bed, in the bedroom way on the other side of the house. She came into the den and asked me why I had turned all the light on, because the light woke her up. I hadn't and there were no lights on except the one she turned on in the bedroom.

FRAML : Ben: Thank you for the seminar. It is time for me to depart for the night. Good night everyone.

Ben : FRAML : Thank you for your inputs, amigo. Sleep well.


eddie : I'll see you ALL soon. Peace, love & light. Namaste

alremkin : Good night eddie and FRAML. Namaste, Om ...

dancer : Ben: Wonderful. Thank you ... good to see you again ... *S

OwlGhost : Thank you Ben ... *S*

alremkin : Ben: Thank you for leading the seminar.

Ben : ALL: You're welcome. *S*

Ben : Setting Topic To: Prayers and condolences to LEGS

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